Losing Adult Children to Gender Ideology?

I'm not sure what the poster's views are as I don't think she shared them. They could be anything. I also haven't called anyone a bigot.

I don't think reflecting on beliefs and being open to change is ever a bad thing. Being so entrenched that you can't even agree not to discuss a topic to respect your child's boundary is though. Especially if it's damaging your relationship with them.

I think, unfortunately, that young adults are being trained to lack resilience when it comes to conversation around this subject. I think it comes at a terrible price, but I also think that I wouldn't push it when it comes to this. Awful as it is, I think back right off, because there are forces at play beyond sensible discussion.

@NewNameNigel "I also haven't called anyone a bigot."

Well, you certainly suggested I should rethink my position!

@Grimchmas "I think, unfortunately, that young adults are being trained to lack resilience when it comes to conversation around this subject"

To be fair, I wouldn't want to engage with a family member who thinks that black people are inherently less intelligent or worthy than white people. And that's the level we're working at.

Yes, because you said it is causing you great pain as it makes your children see you as being as bad as a racist.

Reexamine doesn't mean change your mind to believing the opposite. It just means taking a look at it and thinking critically.

I feel like both sides of this "gender debate" have become a bit like a religious beliefs in that they are both very fixed view points that people are prepared to damage relationships with their own family for and any suggestion that either side could compromise or rethink is taken as an insult.

Incidentally-I don't think suggesting someone should "rethink" is an insult. I do think suggesting that a person openly engaging on a thread like this hasn't is definitely an insult. And patronising.

@NewNameNigel Also I'd love to have your tips on how compromise would work in this situation. Because believe me, I will grasp anything that would work with both hands.

I think the suggestion of the OP's daughter to avoid talking about it is probably the best compromise to maintain the relationship between them.

When another person is holding you to ransom regarding a viewpoint that has been deemed ‘acceptable in modern society’ then why should you acquiesce? Surely showing your adult child that you have a different opinion is important? It is not racist, ableist, ageist, homophobic or transphobic to hold a belief that people cannot change sex. in the words of the fabulous KJK, “Let Women Speak”.

@pikkumyy77
Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public spaces

Where is your evidence for such a claim?

How is not wanting to discuss something holding someone to ransom?

@CurlewKate Your posts on this thread have made me feel so sad for you, and have also made me resolve to work harder on my relationship with my parents (I mentioned Brexit and immigration as being areas where we disagree- in reality I do find their views racist and sexist and it's been something which has damaged our relationship). I don't know what state your relationship with them is in so some of this might be irrelevant, apologies if so. In particular, it's not clear to me whether you are estranged due to all this or whether the issue is your discomfort with knowing how offensive they find your views.

What seems so awful is that the GC women I know generally have a huge amount of common ground with trans rights supporters (re people being free to present themselves however they want and the harm which is done by social pressure to conform to particular stereotypes). I don't know what state your relationship with your children is in but, assuming you're talking, would it help when you talk to them to try to focus on the areas of common ground? I find so much of the debate (particularly the emphasis on whether TWAW) is almost designed to be maximally polarising and reduce the discussion to a binary, whereas in reality, once you dig down, many people's views are more nuanced.

Something that I've found helpful with my parents is to switch to David Dimbleby mode- to see myself not as a participant in the debate but as something more like an interviewer. So instead of disagreeing, I ask a lot of questions (and not gotcha questions, genuine ones) and the results have usually been that I find my parents' views are a bit more nuanced and balanced than they initially present them.

I also think (as I mention to OP above) that it's really easy to slip into the wrong mode when thinking about all this stuff (I'm thinking of OP objecting to being restricted in what she can say in her own home, or my dad ranting about being "no-platformed" when I told him I didn't want to have a debate about whether feminism has gone too far). It doesn't sound as if you're doing this, from what you've said, but maybe your children are. I don't know whether it's our social media age to blame but I find increasingly that complex issues are treated in a way which is reductive and which imposes a false binary, which means that we often misunderstand our opponents entirely and assume they hold a set of views which we associate with a stereotype. Trying to keep some lightness, some fluidity, is vital- resist the urge to simplism, the world doesn't divide into Good People (who think just like you) and Bad People (who don't). But this is all really stuff I'd like to say to your kids, not to you.

I hope you find a way through.

Sure, but it goes both ways, especially when the ‘child’ is in their 40s!

Of course. But in this case the "child" has called a truce by asking to stop discussing it to maintain the relationship. It's the "adult" that wants to force the issue.

One adult is unable to tolerate the entirely legal opinions of another?

At the age of FORTY!

All opinions are legal. That doesn't mean everyone wants to talk about them.

I feel like this about respecting boundaries rather than the legitimacy of GC views.
I avoid talking about abortion with my mother because she has the opinion that women who are pregnant should be forced to give birth as she feels abortion is murder. I think that putting a non sentient fetus above a woman is deeply misogynistic. We don't talk about the issue because we cannot agree and it upsets us both. If she insisted on talking about it when we met I wouldn't want to see much of her.

There are plenty of legal opinions I wouldn’t tolerate. If it is someone you are keen to protect your relationship with having a clear line that neither party cross makes sense.

Thank you @Twerpsichore. We're not estranged, thank providence-and I hope it will never come to that. But I do feel that if I don't speak very carefully, I could put them in the position of having to choose. And they feel so strongly that my beliefs are bigoted that they could only choose one way. Ironically, they would think it the only principled choice they could make. I raised them to stand up for what they believe, even at personal cost!

Sounds like overly sensitive bollocks to me.

When did people lose the ability to discuss and disagree vehemently and still maintain a relationship?

Adult ‘children’ who forbid their mam from talking about certain subjects need remedial critical thinking classes.

https://get.futurefocusedlearning.net/critical-thinking-cheatsheet

Would you like a trigger warning before Sunday lunch?

😂

No I just don't like having circular arguments with my mum. And luckily she doesn't want to have circular arguments with me so we agree to disagree like civilised adults and let it lie, knowing that we can disagree about things and still enjoy each others company.

I'll take your mocking response as a sign that you have no actual counterarguments to this reasonable adult approach to avoiding conflict.

It's funny, a lot of GC are concerned with transwomen violating women's boudaries by entering their spaces, yet here you are mocking another woman for having boundaries about what she wants to discuss.

Or they are sensible enough to know that no amount of discussion will lead to a common ground so it makes much more sense to agree to disagree and avoid the topic.

what postive can come from going round in circles and spoiling what should be enjoyable time together?

people putting boundaries in place is a good thing. Your argument is basically this woman should have to sit and argue with her Mum rather than just peacefully avoid the topic.

I don't know if this is of any help to you but a few years ago Repeal the 8th referendum in Ireland was quite a contentious topic. Essentially, it was whether to reverse the 8th amendment banning abortion in Ireland in order to allow legal abortion in some cases.

I am pro choice - I believe that it is a matter between only a woman and her doctor, and nobody else's business, no matter what her reasons may or may not be. I believe it should be allowed as early as possible and as late as necessary and that the cost of it should not be a factor for women to worry about.

My mother is 100% pro life. In all circumstances. No exceptions. To her abortion is not one bit different to infanticide.

There's no budging her. And there's no budging me. So we just didn't talk about it at all. Well actually, she did do a lot of lecturing and ranting, but I just made non-committal murmurs and changed the subject as early as I could. But I never got involved in a discussion with her - the stance on both sides mean that there was never a middle ground.

I'm gender critical but I do think that you could avoid this one subject for the short amount of time in her presence. And if she unexpectedly sees your name trending on twitter at some point then that's on her - you've obeyed her express wishes.

I have an enormous amount of sympathy for you losing your job because of your beliefs.

I have been through long arduous litigation for the past year that has at least 2 years to go, so I know the feeling of how encompassing it is. Again my enormous empathy here.

I am not sure why I am posting this as I don't think you are really hearing alternate viewpoints to ones reinforcing your belief your daughter is wrong. But from your comments it sounds like you are losing your daughter to gender ideology, but the gender ideology is yours?

Any ideology, even if it is 100% true, can destroy relationships and families if we are so wedded to it. You need to ask yourself honestly what matters the most to you - having this as such a hardened position through every single relationship and aspect of your life, or having a relationship with your daughter. I suspect you can only pick one.