Losing Adult Children to Gender Ideology?

It is this sense of huge disapproval and distress and - rather a lot of the time - a feeling that there is this bloody great elephant in the room, which we are all having to edge round.

I understand this but she isn't going to help or change her views so either you don't see her till this thing is all over or find ways to see her and not discuss it.

I do think we expect support from family even if they don't agree with us they can still find ways to be supportive or at least let you talk - but she isn't prepared to do this and you can't force her to do so.

I do think this will negatively impact on how you feel for a long time and I suspect anger as well as disapproval and distress may surface and closeness will suffer at least in the short term - but if you do want to retain a relationship with her you need need to respect her current boundaries.

I wouldn't hide things in my house like books but I would avoid the conversation topic and if she dead set on not talking about it then expect her to ignore things she dislikes in my house.

It’s only a massive elephant if you decide to make it one.

Calling it self-censorship, concealment comes across as over the top for simply avoiding a subject where you are in stark disagreement with a family member.

Maybe you’re not actually open to staying away from the topic at all.

Maybe what you’re looking for here is for someone to tell you it will all be ok in the end, and she will come to accept your way of thinking, saving you the trouble of having to avoid the topic when you’re with her.

@Titerama "t’s only a massive elephant if you decide to make it one. "
With respect, this isn't true. It's a massive elephant anyway. It's not just a difference of opinion. We don't talk about gender issues in our family- but I know that for my children, I hold a view that is equivalent to racism. Or anti semitism. That's what they believe. And if my parents had been racists, I wouldn't have wanted to see them again. There couldn't have been a compromise. Not talking about it would have made no difference. And it doesn't matter that we don't talk about it. It's still there. It's not like being Tory or Labour, or atheist or religious-those are opinions. Arguments on both sides,yadda yadda. This is like black people are inferior to white people. My children are having to get past thinking I'm a bigot. So far they kind of have for which I am eternally, heartstoppingly grateful. But I'm not sure, from day to day, how long that will continue.

Big hugs op. I’m sure she loves you, for what it’s worth. If your dh messaged her in the next few months saying ‘you should know your mum is going through a hard time right now. A kind word or message would make a big difference. Do you think you will really look back and say thank goodness I didn’t message or visit, I’m really proud of me in 2023?’ Do you think she’d take that on board? It would be so upsetting to think she’d have fired you too.

So sorry this is happening to you OP - you must feel so upset that your dd is refusing to support you at such a difficult time, I would too. Totally unreasonable of her to try to dictate what you talk about in your own home especially when it’s about such a huge and current issue in your life. I think you’re right to stand your ground and I hope one day she looks back and feels ashamed of her disloyal and uncaring behaviour towards you.

We have a young adult DD who is quite frankly a fanatic about gender ideology. She cries when we disagree with her but has absolutely no evidence for her claims that TWAW, trans people are the most oppressed people in the world, trans people will kill themselves if you don’t affirm them. She believes the Stonewall riots were started by a black trans person and that Isla Bryson is a woman and we are hateful for calling him a man. She says there is absolutely nothing we can say to change her mind. She has not managed to come up with a single compelling argument for her beliefs, just the usual cliches and bogus data. The big problem is that we’d happily agree not to discuss it but she brings it up every time we see each other (not often as she lives 100s of miles away for university)which leads to unpleasantness and spoiling our time together. She behaves as if she is brainwashed and exactly like a cult member, it is very clear she now regards us as the enemy rather than her family. I don’t know how it’s going to be resolved to be honest, our only hope at the moment is that she grows up and enters the real world and sees how misogynistic and harmful to children and homophobic this ideology is. She’s 22 so there is hope.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your case and your dd OP. This ideology is so utterly toxic. My sympathies are very much with anyone going through this with their adult children who have been sucked in to these beliefs.

What is it with the crying? My own DD19 peaked last summer but up until that point she and I would disagree on trans ideology and when we'd discuss it she would get so frustrated she'd cry. The reason I think this is so odd is we have always had very robust political and philosophical debates in our home and DD LOVES debate, was on debate team in high school (we live in States) and never broke a sweat. She's studying law now at her university, so no wonder. I thought I'd raised her to enthusiastically but civilly disagree. And in all things but trans she could. I even heard her remain calm and cool supporting BLM when talking with adamant and racist neighbors. At 16!!!

Since her peaking, she has talked to me about her emotional reactions on this one thing. She looks back with some wonder and she now says that her extreme emotions were because she was always searching for a logical rebuttal but never quite grasped it. She expected to feel justified when she argued a solid point or feel like she learned something she never considered and possibly change her mind (debate training!). But with trans she said it was like being told your mother is an ax murderer but you can't prove her alibi.

We think it's because it's like a very intense state religion where you lose your entire life if you don't believe.

Oh, and my advice now that my DD did finally peak: don't give this topic too much oxygen. Drop hints. Don't over react. Find common ground on other topics. My DD came to her peak not because of some perfectly delivered speech I argued (she was too emotional for that) but from hanging out with her old friend who is now a TiM. She experienced this friend's repeated sexism and misogyny and realized, "you are not like me. You are NOT a woman." Comparing this friend's "oppression" with her own experiences as a young woman is what opened her eyes.

Delphinium, thanks for providing some facts to counter the genderists’ constant stream of dishonest propaganda.

I don’t doubt some people who repeat the stories of trans oppression, suicide, murder etc are innocently trying to be kind. But it’s still wrong to spread inflammatory stories without taking a few minutes to check if they’re true.

This is trivial compared to some issues-but my dd and I were looking forward to going to see Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret together. and now that has become something that will need to be navigated, rather than a simple outing. Sigh.

I haven't RTFT but I'm in a position where both DDs age 38 and 42 are both very pro trans and call me a TERF, which doesn't bother me as I am a GC feminist. I disagree with their POV and they disagree with mine. We just don't talk about the subject and if OP's daughter doesn't want to talk about the legal case I'd not bring up the subject while she is visiting you. I would certainly not create a possible breakdown between you all over it. Best of luck.

OP, you didn’t choose to fight this battle when you, perfectly legally, made a comment on Twitter. You simply stood your ground when you came under attack.

What a shame your daughter chooses not to support you; I’m sure you’ve always stood by her. But genderist ideology does get a terrifying grip on young people, and she must have been at a very impressionable age when she encountered it.

From what you’ve said here, you weren’t insisting on regaling her with your case. You just didn’t accept being told what you were and weren’t allowed to talk about about in your own home.

Have you ever asked her what JK Rowling said that offended her so much? I’d be surprised if she could quote anything that merits the stream of death threats JKR receives.

Best of luck with your case. I’ll look out for your crowdfunder. I hope your daughter grows out of her present behaviour soon.

OP, in your shoes I would do whatever it takes to re establish a relationship with your daughter. I understand her asking you not to talk about the case as being an attempt to ask to agree to disagree, which is a reasonable position. You have nothing to gain by refusing the request. Framing it in terms of being dictated to in your own home seems like a category error to me- she is your daughter and she’s doing her best to find a way to maintain her relationship with in spite of a serious difference in views.

Many of us have “no go” topics with our parents- I avoid discussing Brexit, immigration etc with mine because I know from experience that we will disagree, we’ll be more polarised at the end than we were at the beginning, and that I’ll lose respect for them in a way that I find upsetting (and vice versa, I’m sure). Who does it serve to constantly rehash these arguments? Losing your relationship with your daughter won’t help the GC cause one bit. You might even find that spending time together without talking about the case reminds her that you’re a reasonable, thoughtful and intelligent person and as a result she might open her mind a bit to your views- in any event, this seems a better option than insisting on discussing something you know is a wedge issue.

You're not losing your child to gender ideology. You're losing her because she has a boundary and you don't feel able to respect it.

I think what some people may be missing here is that this is not just a matter of disagreeing. There are lots of things my children and I disagree about but we can see each other's point of view and understand it. This subject, uniquely in my opinion, is one where my children actually think I am a bad person, a bigot. They genuinely think I am as bad as a racist. If we got on in other areas just a little less well, they would, I am sure, never want to see me again. So no, it's not like Brexit, religion or even immigration. It's an order of magnitude different.

All the more reason to avoid discussion of the issue if requested to.

But the daughter was willing to “call a truce” on the issue so they could spend time together. The mother is the one deciding her desire to talk about it is more important than her relationship with the daughter.

the issue here isn’t with the daughter.

Not sure this changes the analysis at all- if anything it makes it more important not to let it destroy the relationship.

You're not losing your child to gender ideology. You're losing her because she has a boundary and you don't feel able to respect it.

Absolutely.

what's your history like with her, this aside? I wonder could that be clouding her judgement or giving her a reason to assert clearer boundaries about what can and can't be discussed. For example, my dad historically goes on long rants at me and gets really offended if I don't agree with him; not only that he loves to lecture and in the last few years has taken up some views which I strongly disagree with (e.g. brexit etc) and loves to shove them down my throat when I visit which I hate and had to tell him to please not discuss in my company. Could something similar be going on historically with you and her, even if you don't realise it? It could be unlinked to this issue but linked to how she perceives you behaved towards her in the past maybe.

Fair enough. I expressed myself badly. What I am trying to say is that even if,(as we do) you don't talk about it, while you're eating dinner or watching Masterchef, you know that your children consider you on a par with the worst people in the world. If you haven't experienced this you can have no idea what it's like after 26 years of raising 2 compassionate, progressive forward thinking people.

Or maybe reverse the situation in your head OP, which I know isn't easy but her take on it might be "losing my mum and dad to gender critical ideology". You may have polar views but hers are valid to her and "right" in her own mind as much as yours are right to yourself. You're both in very black and white territory which is pretty dangerous.

I'd probably reexamine my views if people who I loved and respected thought I was a bigot...

What I wouldn't do is make things worse by insisting on talking about a subject that was obviously hard for them to hear me talk about.

@NewNameNigel "I'd probably reexamine my views if people who I loved and respected thought I was a bigot..."

You think I don't? Every fucking day?

The bigotry of thinking children shouldn't be transitioned in secret from their parents and that the young shouldn't be sterilised before they are old enough to make that decision.

Thankfully the majority of the population share that alleged "bigotry" 😑