Do titles matter?

[Cheeseandolivesplease]

I had this debate on a general board and the over-riding consensus was that "titles are irrelevant" (insofar as it makes no difference if you choose to be a Mrs HisName).
I vehemently disagree.
Someone suggested I'd get a different perspective on the Feminism board so here I am.
Is the fact that I am a married Ms MyName a "complete irrelevance" to fighting against the patriarchy do you think?
Do female honorifics matter?

Ms didn't exist before the 1960s! You must be thinking of Miss.

Yes but the reasons you are touting by @GarlicEverywhere as why it’s a strike against patriarchy are rooted in a history that never existed. HTH

You misread my reply, which gave two separate points. I didn't say Mrs denoted ownership, the name change does.

@NullaEffugium It's a strike against today's patriarchy, as she said.

Not true. It existed in the 17th century as another abbreviation for Mistress (same as Mrs) and then was rebranded by the women’s lib movement (1960s) as something neutral. By the 1960s, men didn’t own their wife’s property, income, assets, inheritance after marriage. So Mrs never indicated ‘transfer of ownership’ unlike Ms as both were being used when men did own their wives.

@GarlicEverywhere I think both do, because unfortunately so many people still assume that Mrs is for a married woman. But agree that someone becoming HisName does too.

I disagree. No one cares whether you have an r in there or not. Least of all the patriarchy.

Im a feminist.
Im also a traditionalist too.
I like being Mrs (husbands name).
I especially wanted my whole family (ie any children we had)to have the same name.
I don’t want to be a Ms. It was only used by divorced women until recently- well, where I live anyway.

You'd be surprised. Either you're still too young to have bumped up against patriarchal barriers, or you've led a wonderfully protected life.

@NullaEffugium Oh they do. How many men would be genuinely happy for their wife to go my Ms HerName?

@DaisyDooley My daughter does share my last name. Ms doesn't mean divorced.

Why do we have titles at all? Is it a relic which signified being a property owner or voter?

I would do away with Mr, Mrs, Miss and Ms. If it carries no meaning then it is pointless.

You think that whether you are a Ms/Mrs or his name your name is a big patriarchal barrier that you are heroically pushing through? And my thinking it is irrelevant is due to either youth or being super comfortable?

Never once thought that perhaps that to me the real patriarchal barriers are a hell of a lot bigger than what name you put on a form and the annoying assumptions certain people might make about your marital status and my life has been magnitudes harder than yours?

And why does this matter? As I said in many countries it’s the tradition that a woman doesn’t change her name and they have the same title married or not.

Yet still they still have the patriarchy.

That is called irrelevancy. It is not relevant to the existence or extent of the patriarchy whether you are a Ms/Mrs/Mx/Miss and what your surname is. You are female therefore you are subject to the patriarchy. It’s like thinking if I cut my hair short and not wear makeup, that is a blow to the patriarchy. No it isn’t. It’s just futile performative shit that doesn’t change anything.

Has the rebranding of Ms in the 1960s as a marital status neutral term materially pushed women’s rights forward in the UK compared to countries with no Ms?

Answer is no it hasn’t.

@NullaEffugium Are you young? Married? What title do you go by?
I never really questioned how patriarchal female honorifics are until my late 30s. I married at 41.
My neutral title plus MyName is incredibly important to me.

@NullaEffugium Have you considered why many men want their wives to become a Mrs HisName at all? If it doesn't matter.

I have been Ms My Surname for first both marriage and second marriage. First marriage ex H and his family had plenty to say but I didn’t want to change as it was my name professionally too. Second marriage DH is totally respectful and understands my choice.

@TheDogsMother What were the reasons for your ex and his family not accepting it?
My Dad struggles to understand it but then he is very "old school" (as well as old!)

I am in my mid50s
I married but kept my family name
Half my DC have my family name, the other my DH’s family name it was their choice at 18.
All DC from same DH.

I questioned the history of it in my teens as I married young. I basically found out no difference. Ms isn’t some great neutral term it’s just a resurrected several centuries old different abbreviation for Mistress than Mrs that was marketed to my mum’s generation as some women’s lib thing which was ultimately irrelevant because it did nothing to further the equality of women.

It still doesn’t. This is the sort of feminist with a cause but no guts or idea as what to do that really matters.

Recommend you focus on things like fighting VAWG, mentoring women into male dominated career fields, or tougher employment protections for mothers to be and mothers instead of on which Ms/Mrs box to tick on a form or what surname you prefer after you have that big fancy wedding. In the scheme of being a feminist, you’re focussing on the flower arranging.

Surely the feminist way is to actively choose your surname and title, rather than passively accept it.

The same reason many women want to keep their names. An overinflated sense of it mattering a lot in a political sense when it does not.

I think women being expected to announce their marital status to the world via their title is deeply patriarchal. It's great to be able to use Dr.

I agree.
On a side note, my surname is through the maternal line. I have traced it back for four generations.

Do whatever you want. I kept my maiden name (been together 30 years). Some days I'm Miss, some days Ms, some Mrs. Whatever I'm in the mood for. I've never had any issues with being any of them.

Except it isn’t expected as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
Here in France, Madame is universal polite title for all adult women.

In the UK, Ms can mean married as often as Mrs means unmarried. Loads of divorcees go by Mrs. No one is really making the assumption, that’s why they ask questions nowadays like and is there a Mr ?