Lilly Allen & Miquita on abortions

[Cloud987]

Sorry for the DM link - I know it's a rag.

I'm just completely disturbed having read this article and listened to their podcast episode of them talking about having 5 abortions each. This surely is not what the 1967 abortion act was designed for. It's not some preppy girl-power feminist statement to have so many abortions you can't even remember them. And to laugh and sing about it rather than take a somber view or think about how you would make better choices or advise women and girls listening to make other choices for themselves. Or to demand that contraceptive services post-abortion are better to prevent girls from having another one. Am I wrong for thinking this is messed up and completely tasteless? And antithetical to the well-being of women and girls? Am I being excessively prude and judgemental?

Sorry didn't know where else to put this & haven't made a thread before so if I have broken rules or if this just is inappropriate let me know. This has just really got under my skin.

Article link here

Their podcast is called "Miss Me" and is available on BBC sounds - it's on their episode from this week called "Listen Bitch" at the very start. I am not a regular listener to it.

Edit: sorry I meant to post this on feminism chat not S&G discussions

@Cloud987 I really don't know why you are blaming women here, or liberal feminists. If you believe in Conservative values, whereby there are limits to women's freedoms and personal choices over sexual behaviour, then that is your belief. I personally think that it seems to blame women, but that's my opinion.
If you read testimonies of the experiences before the 1967 Act, you will find it very harrowing. Let women have control over their bodies.

Women. Can have as much casual sex as they like. Jno one is shaming them. Have sex with a different man every night of the week no big deal.

But surely feminism which allows us to to do that carries an elementof personal reproductive responsibility

No, I don’t pretend to know what’s best for other women nor should my morality be applied to any one else’s decisions.

Abortion doesn’t need to be discussed in a sombre “could do better” sort of way. If that’s how you would handle it then cool, it’s not on to put those expectations on anyone else.

They are nasty and horrible people. Ugh.

I’m of the opinion that it would be a bad idea to put a limit on abortion but I also think having 5 suggests you are using abortion as contraception. The way they are talking in this article is disgraceful and I will judge them for that.. Romantic to have an abortion for Christ sake.

Because not every woman is responsible, but that's the way it is. The judging of women and their moral behaviour will not end abortions, nor the need for them.

You brought up a woman having sex while drunk so I said maybe we should be more conservative with sex ed and telling women not to do that (including thought feminist groups) because of the risk they may get pregnant. The "feminist" group at my uni did a BDSM 101 session. Seriously, I'm not joking. How is teaching a bunch of 18 year old girls it's empowering to get hit during sex feminism?

I'm not suggesting anything is overturned or reversed but I do think the flippant attitude to getting pregnant or having risky sex will embolden those who don't think women should have any access to reproductive health care at all, including where they were assaulted or worse. It's not wrong to say that women are at least 50% responsible for not getting pregnant when they know they don't want to be

I completely agree with the right to chose. But to express this in this manner is so inappropriate- it gives the message to young women that rather then plan ahead etc this can be a quick easy method of planning contraception when in reality it brings its own emotional and physical challenges and is a very hard thing to go through (from experience).

I didn't hear them discuss any of the circumstances around their abortions, so why are some people just assuming that they used them instead of contraception?

Both of the presenters have both been open about chaotic times in their lives, drugs and alcohol priblems, so why are some people making the judgement that they're 'responsible' women and shouldn't be doing it? Each and every one could have happened while they were considered vulnerable.

At the early points in pregnancy, abortion is pills, similar to the morning after pill in lots of ways. Would 5 lots of that be acceptable?

Hopefully it won't happen, but if my daughter or friend was to go through a whatever period of time, and found themselves unexpectedly with an unwanted pregnancy, I would support through an abortion. If it happened multiple times, I would try to speak about contraception and sexual health, but I'd also support them through them all.

Just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't mean you should judge others on a headline. 5 abortions for a 40 year old, having sex since 16, could mean having one bout of unprotected sex or problems with contraception every 5 years that just happens to lead to pregnancy. That would be very easily done, especially if there are issues with hormonal contraception.

Yea thank you I am able to grasp the simple concept.

5 abortions isn’t ’using abortion as contraception’ unless Lily has only had sex very few times in her life. I wish people wouldn’t say such stupid things.

Also, abortion isn’t always traumatic for women.

Taking some tablets in early pregnancy to get rid of some cells you don’t want to develop into a baby iis really quite straightforward and very much not traumatic for many women.

Some people really don’t like that. They want women to be contrite and feel shame.

I know nothing of your university experience. I'm not sure how that group you describe would be connected to abortions, but anyway.
My point is this: either abortion is provided for girls and women in a safe, clean environment, or you will force a woman to have an unwanted child or a backstreet abortion. You may think these women have low moral standards, but that is the issue.

I do feel a bit ….sad?….. for Miquita as she hasn’t actually got children and her and Andi seem like lovely family and I feel her having a baby would have been a lovely thing. Feels like her and Andi and the world have missed out. Definitely something internalised for me there, must unpick when less busy,
Lily, well she’s had two kids and at least two losses which really threatened her health. As well as drug use, eating disorders, chaotic relationships, it seems the most responsible thing really. Agree with someone further up, if you’re having that many unplanned pregnancies then it’s probably for the best you are organising yourself to stop the pregnancies.

My mistake, I assumed when you said:

Nor do I understand women who are cavalier about abortion but devastated by a miscarriage.

That you were being serious 🤷🏼‍♀️

That pretty much sums ms it up for me.

Maybe a medical professional( and possibly a psychiatrist) should have taken them aside and given them some straight facts about contraception being favourable over repeated abortion. But I get the feeling that they were both more interested in almost deliberately misunderstanding the pro choice thing as well as getting a perverse thrill out of annoying the pro-lifers. Getting repeated abortions seems to have almost become a political statement for them it seems.

Miquita should be ashamed of herself, knowing that young teenagers will hear her say that she felt more of a woman when she had had her first abortion. I didn’t listen to the whole podcast, please someone tell me that she then told listeneners “what the hell was THAT weird twisted, naiive and immature way of thinking?!? Any girls, listening, DON’T think for one minute that that is correct! I was wrong, wrong, wrong and I regret that those thoughts were even allowed to enter my head. Please, learn from my mistakes! I’m glad I did have the choice but I wish I’d thought about my contraception a LOT more.”

if she didn’t say something along those lines she’s a fucking idiot.

They trivialise the procedure which for many women is a tough decision with possible psychological consequences later. Abortion is called romantic, made the presenter (I think it was her) feel like a women and they don’t know for sure how many they have had. It’s also sad actually because it’s a difficult choice for many people. Didn’t they get contraceptive advice and sexual health advice? This must have been lacking?

The amount of things that have to fall into place to get pregnant just makes me think these guys must have been snagging loads. Sorry that’s not the point of the thread.

pro choice here too but can also say both parties in the bedroom were irresponsible idiots to not use protection so many times. (And no, I don’t believe it failed 5 times before anyone says it)

No they don’t. They probably just think that if a woman can repeatedly organise taking a pill or using an IUD with hormones to stop a pregnancy then she can organise repeatedly using them to prevent one.

isnt lily allen the one who got rid of her dog because it ate her passport or something??
i have NO time for her anyhow

This.

I appreciate everyone's views and I've reflected a lot on my own opinions too, and biases and judgement. Thanks all for your time and comments

Thank you for raising it. 👍

Why can’t women have 5 abortions? What are you judging here? If it’s just a bunch of cells, which it is, surely it’s like getting a wart removed? Sure some women have complicated feelings about it, but these two don’t. This is fine.