Lilly Allen & Miquita on abortions

[Cloud987]

Sorry for the DM link - I know it's a rag.

I'm just completely disturbed having read this article and listened to their podcast episode of them talking about having 5 abortions each. This surely is not what the 1967 abortion act was designed for. It's not some preppy girl-power feminist statement to have so many abortions you can't even remember them. And to laugh and sing about it rather than take a somber view or think about how you would make better choices or advise women and girls listening to make other choices for themselves. Or to demand that contraceptive services post-abortion are better to prevent girls from having another one. Am I wrong for thinking this is messed up and completely tasteless? And antithetical to the well-being of women and girls? Am I being excessively prude and judgemental?

Sorry didn't know where else to put this & haven't made a thread before so if I have broken rules or if this just is inappropriate let me know. This has just really got under my skin.

Article link here

Their podcast is called "Miss Me" and is available on BBC sounds - it's on their episode from this week called "Listen Bitch" at the very start. I am not a regular listener to it.

Edit: sorry I meant to post this on feminism chat not S&G discussions

Just the kind of person who should have a baby then?

Perhaps it's easy to judge girls and women. It would be a perfect world indeed where none of us made a mistake or a bad judgement or were unlucky.
Or got raped.

Pro abortion is pro choice.

That means that it is lily allen's choice.

Once or twice is a mistake. Five times is idiotic.

Perhaps you didn't read past the word "mistake".
There are other reasons for abortion. Maybe you don't agree with them, but ultimately, it is the woman's choice.

Could very much say the same about women who choose to have 5 children, without the means and maturity.

Once or twice is a mistake. 5 times is idiotic.

MN is full of struggling women with multiple kids from multiple fathers who go on to have more children in less then desirable conditions. Absolutely not even remotely morally superior to choosing to abort. In fact in some instances, that’s the decision they should have made.

But your post again is just talking about the woman. What about the man in the scenario.

Some men can push you into having sex without condoms

I think @Cloud987 might enjoy Louise Perry's book, The case against the sexual revolution.

On the question of abortion as contraception this was very much the only option in the Soviet Union pre 1991. It was completely normal to have multiple abortions as there were so few contraceptive options. The consequences for women's reproductive health were not great eg ashermans syndrome.
It's not exactly female empowerment is it?

I read your post.
I know women get raped. I know there are many reasons for abortions including medical reasons. Lily Allen wasn't discussing her 5 abortions in terms of being raped or for medical reasons.

Doing something 5 times is a pattern, not a mistake.

Utter rubbish!
Why do men not have to “actually start taking responsibility for their behaviour and actions”?
No contraceptive option for men other than condoms, which let’s face it, they’d prefer not to wear!
The burden is on women.

This thread is about abortions though....

I was being serious but can still understand a simple concept.

Men and women are both responsible for any pregnancy, unless of course the woman is raped. I think that men who have unprotected sex are just as scummy as the women! Hope this helps.

Unfortunately you're right, the burden is on women. Women biologically are the only people at risk of pregnancy. So yes, any responsible woman should take charge of her body and health and use contraception. It's not hard.

im not sure why anyone thinks Lily Allen should have been forced to continue with pregnancies she didnt want, or for Lily Allen to have 5 more children.

I think that if anyone finds themselves with a pregnancy that they dont want to continue with, then they should be able to access a termination.

I just dont feel particularly emotional about Lily Allens, or anyones unwanted foetuses.

@CoffeeBreak8
’This is exactly the type of right wing misogynist pushback I expected after hearing their podcast episode.
Im wondering… do extreme right wing men never conduct themselves in a way that is promiscuous? 🧐’

As far as I’m aware, no man has ever been able to get pregnant so whilst I find promiscuity in men abhorrent, a woman has more of a duty of care to not create life in the first place when she has no intention of sustaining that life.

Lily is not part of the third world where contraception is hard to get, she is a privileged white woman who could have taken multiple forms of contraceptive measures to reduce the chances of getting pregnant as much as possible.

She CHOSE not to have any responsibility in preventing an unwanted pregnancy, MULTIPLE times.

imagine someone that idiotic being responsible for 5 kids they didnt even want eh

Actually she did choose to prevent an unwanted pregnancy… by having an abortion!

Right.

@CoffeeBreak8……after life was conceived and not before, that’s the difference how someone without morals thinks and someone with morals thinks.

I actually listened to the episode. At first I felt that they shouldn’t be sharing this information but then I thought good for them. Abortions should be talked about, women shouldn’t feel ashamed. I am pro choice. As a PP said their body, their choice.

Oh lord. An abortion doesn't prevent a pregnancy. It ends it. Totally different.

I do think it is important for women to speak openly about these things. I believe 1 in 3 women have abortions in their life time. It shouldn't be something we have to talk about in hushed tones under a veil of shame.

Multiple abortions are likely more common than some realise. Life is messy and we are flawed. Sometimes not having a baby is the correct choice for all concerned, and that doesn't change based on the number of times it happens. It is the reason that educating and providing contraception is so important though, so women don't have to put their bodies and minds through these things.

I had one abortion. Only my husband (and counsellors, and internet strangers) know about it. My mental health was in pieces for a long time afterwards. Maybe if abortions were spoken about more openly then things, both before in terms of informed consent and in terms of the aftermath, may have been different. When I read judgemental posts I often find myself just thinking how easily it could be anybody walking that tricky path.

i am pro choice and yes women should be allowed to have as many abortions as they want or need. But the tone they were creating on it just feels wrong, to laugh about it, to be so unconcerned that Lily remembers getting pregnant ‘all the time’, for Miquita to say she felt like a real woman after getting her first abortion, it feels like they are trying to glamorise abortion, to imply it’s a cool thing to do? I just don’t think it’s a funny topic to joke about.

I'm pro-choice. I think that there is still a lot of shame around abortion and unwanted pregnancy. I had an abortion at 17, I was about to complete my AS levels and I was on the pill. I wasn't taking my pill every day at exactly the same time (I didn't realise that this is what I should have been doing). I was in long relationship with my first serious boyfriend. Finding out I was pregnant was a shock. Arranging an abortion, having an abortion and the aftermath shame and guilt that accompanied this in the early 2000s took a long while to work through. I did this secretly and without parental knowledge. Again due to shame. This decision was absolutely the right choice for me to make. But it was a choice. For me it doesn't matter how many times someone has to make a choice. It's the fact that a choice can be made. I actually think the fact that women are speaking out publicly about the choices they have made ( on a subject shrouded in shame) is a positive thing. For many years I couldn't share my choices. But over the years, I have met many women who were in a similar position to me in the early 2000s and shared their choice and subsequently the shame they felt. Lily Allen is in a public position and so speaking out about this puts her in a position to come under very public attack. I think it is very brave of her to admit this.