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Feminism: chat

How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

1000 replies

Hadmysay · 20/05/2025 19:54

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 06:41

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 02:11

They don't OP or they wouldn't accept women being treated like second class citizens.

There's no way for you to know that or not.
I'm going by what I've seen and know.
And I wouldn't say the women in their families are second class citizens.
Most times Obviously there are rare occasions they are but from what I've seen most are looked after and respected

I'm afraid there seem to be two realities going on here. One is real and backed up by evidence and one is in your head. If you name the countries you're talking about where women are 'looked after and respected', we'll see if that's factual.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 06:43

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 05:18

There has been those things for decades.
Again nothing will change.
It's one step forward two steps back

You're missing the end of your sentence. Nothing will change with attitudes like yours. Things have changed albeit slowly but a veritable sprint in comparison to countries where women live in open prisons.

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 26/06/2025 06:45

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 02:07

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14847117/men-raped-Rotheram-girl-white-girls.html

Guys strangley enough here's an article which was posted yesterday.
Three men are in court on charges of grooming and what I said a few pages ago about how these men view us because of how a lot of us in the west dress and a lot disagreed with me but guess what,I wasn't lying.
I told you it was a reason it's out of the horses mouth.

He said it was my own fault, I'd led him on.

'I shouldn't have walked around in what I was dressed in.

'I deserved it and that is what white girls were for.'

Again I don't condone this at all but I'm telling you what it is and contributing factors.

Every fucking abuser uses the “she made me do it” line. It doesn’t make it fact.

It’s also interesting that you assume what this victim was wearing simply because it’s mentioned. It could’ve been trakkies or jeans or shorts and Tshirts. It could’ve been anything. It could’ve simply been the fact that she was walking around with her hair uncovered. That’s a biggie in these cultures. Do you extend your modest dressing requirements to hair covering as well?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 06:54

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 02:07

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14847117/men-raped-Rotheram-girl-white-girls.html

Guys strangley enough here's an article which was posted yesterday.
Three men are in court on charges of grooming and what I said a few pages ago about how these men view us because of how a lot of us in the west dress and a lot disagreed with me but guess what,I wasn't lying.
I told you it was a reason it's out of the horses mouth.

He said it was my own fault, I'd led him on.

'I shouldn't have walked around in what I was dressed in.

'I deserved it and that is what white girls were for.'

Again I don't condone this at all but I'm telling you what it is and contributing factors.

I can't believe you're quoting rapists as though this is evidence. These men raped children OP. They're vile misogynist pieces of crap, not bastions of honour and respect. Do you honestly believe they have any respect at all for women? No women are safe from them.

No one disagreed with you when you talked about men from regressive and deeply misogynist cultures having no respect for women, Western or otherwise.

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 26/06/2025 06:57

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 05:18

There has been those things for decades.
Again nothing will change.
It's one step forward two steps back

Change is happening, it’s just very slow, mostly because of people like you, with attitudes like yours.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/06/2025 07:25

Hadmysay · 26/06/2025 02:07

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14847117/men-raped-Rotheram-girl-white-girls.html

Guys strangley enough here's an article which was posted yesterday.
Three men are in court on charges of grooming and what I said a few pages ago about how these men view us because of how a lot of us in the west dress and a lot disagreed with me but guess what,I wasn't lying.
I told you it was a reason it's out of the horses mouth.

He said it was my own fault, I'd led him on.

'I shouldn't have walked around in what I was dressed in.

'I deserved it and that is what white girls were for.'

Again I don't condone this at all but I'm telling you what it is and contributing factors.

Honestly, OP, you are an utter disgrace. You are quoting the words of a rapist which were directed at his 14yo victim while he was attacking her, as if we should simply accept this kind of gaslighting statement as fact. Do you honestly not understand that this kind of statement is, in itself, part of the abuse? Which you are now seeking to perpetuate?

Your thinking is so horribly flawed. I don't know what has actually happened to you to make you like this, but please go and get yourself some therapy.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 10:58

@Hadmysay

If you were a man (and I'm not convinced you're not, although women can be misogynists too), you'd be exactly the kind of man who commits rape and still thinks they're the victim.

Spouting myths that men can't 'control their urges'. Well maybe one in a million suffering severe psychosis of some kind can't, but otherwise yes men can control themselves and this has been pointed out to you repeatedly - they don't rape in public spaces, they make a decision to do so only when and where they think they can get away with it. That's not loss of control. That is very deliberate.

You talk about a man who hypothetically targets a woman he sees wearing something revealing and then rapes her months later. You know what men like this see? Vulnerability. Girls and women who can be manipulated into believing it's their fault or simply don't have the self-confidence or support system to leave and/or seek justice. You know what that has no correlation to? What they wear. It has to do with things like naivety, poverty, lack of self-worth and often a history of abuse. That includes many women who grow up in these 'purity' cultures where they are likely to be shamed for being a victim, or are unable to conceptualise what happened as rape or abuse.

Of course men will also target women who don't have these vulnerabilities, but there is still no correlation with what the women wear. The incredibly strong correlation is with the men themselves who lack empathy, see women as lesser beings and often feel deeply inadequate - which of course is accurate, because they're rapist scum.

And yes these same scumbags will say all sorts of things to justify themselves in their own minds. They will say they lost control, conveniently ignoring the fact that they're just opportunists like any other criminal, and like any other criminal they choose scenarios where they think they can get away with it. And that is simply not compatible with the loss of control narrative.

They will say the women were asking for it because they're sluts. But those same men don't truly respect any women; they see us as service humans who are there to provide sex or domestic help. We could all be going around in full burqas and it wouldn't make them any less misogynistic towards women as a whole. And they won't care about consent when it comes to their own 'respected' wives, either.

And I agree with a PP, whether you're male or female you are an absolute disgrace. You haven't evidenced anything you've said or engaged with what others have posted. Your thought processes are on the level of a tiktok video and they're about as reliable. I would say you've been radicalised into extremist misogynistic ideology and you need to acknowledge that and get help, but I doubt you will do that because you're only interested in spouting bullshit about creating Handmaid's Tale laws we can all 'get used to' despite their being no evidence this would even work.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:19

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/05/2025 00:30

I managed to get into TikTok and see both videos.

The first woman has a point, I also have a problem with children in tiny skirts. However she then becomes demented and says that if her daughter was sexually assaulted she'd blame her.

The two are not connected. A predator really doesn't care what you're wearing and only a paedophile thinks a child is asking to be assaulted.

The second raises an issue which has been prevalent for a while, why do designers make sexualised clothes for children? Why are they available to buy?

I agree that children should not be sexualised.

How do we definitely know that the two are not connected though? Surely a predator or a paedophile is more likely going to look at, or target, a potential victim in provocative clothing? There will be many, many instances where this is not the case - but I’d be interested in the stats.

This isn’t victim blaming, but more about protecting our children.

I went to a Beyoncé concert recently and in the row in front of me, two mums had brought their teenage daughters they must have been about 14 years old and they were wearing next to nothing - I was in shock.

Agree about comment questioning why designers are even creating this clothing in the first place. It’s very disturbing!

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 14:21

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:19

How do we definitely know that the two are not connected though? Surely a predator or a paedophile is more likely going to look at, or target, a potential victim in provocative clothing? There will be many, many instances where this is not the case - but I’d be interested in the stats.

This isn’t victim blaming, but more about protecting our children.

I went to a Beyoncé concert recently and in the row in front of me, two mums had brought their teenage daughters they must have been about 14 years old and they were wearing next to nothing - I was in shock.

Agree about comment questioning why designers are even creating this clothing in the first place. It’s very disturbing!

It would be helpful for you to read the thread. There is no evidence that clothes cause rape.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:24

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 14:21

It would be helpful for you to read the thread. There is no evidence that clothes cause rape.

But does it not perpetuate sexualised attitudes towards women and young girls?!?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 14:41

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:24

But does it not perpetuate sexualised attitudes towards women and young girls?!?

This has already been discussed quite extensively in the thread.

pointythings · 26/06/2025 15:30

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:24

But does it not perpetuate sexualised attitudes towards women and young girls?!?

Honestly, I suggest you read the entire thread from beginning to end, comparing the links posted by the OP to those posted by those refuting the OP.

If at the end of that, you're still keen to blame women for getting raped because of how they dress then well, you've joined the misogy apologists' club.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 16:04

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 14:41

This has already been discussed quite extensively in the thread.

Apologies

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 26/06/2025 17:14

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:19

How do we definitely know that the two are not connected though? Surely a predator or a paedophile is more likely going to look at, or target, a potential victim in provocative clothing? There will be many, many instances where this is not the case - but I’d be interested in the stats.

This isn’t victim blaming, but more about protecting our children.

I went to a Beyoncé concert recently and in the row in front of me, two mums had brought their teenage daughters they must have been about 14 years old and they were wearing next to nothing - I was in shock.

Agree about comment questioning why designers are even creating this clothing in the first place. It’s very disturbing!

Predators will target victims who are vulnerable in some way or victims they have access to. That’s it. What they wear is irrelevant that’s why babies and old women are raped. That’s why prostitutes and nuns are raped. That’s why daughters/sons, nieces/nephews, mothers, wives/partners, friends are raped. That’s why sporty children and churchy children are raped. That’s why women and children all over the world are raped.

Thinking like you, not only puts the responsibility on the shoulders of the victim and adds extra shame and guilt, it can actually endanger children. By thinking they’re safe because they’re fat/unattractive/covered up. By dismissing them if they’re not. By ignoring signs and focusing on trivialities. By making a hundred times harder to open up.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:13

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 14:19

How do we definitely know that the two are not connected though? Surely a predator or a paedophile is more likely going to look at, or target, a potential victim in provocative clothing? There will be many, many instances where this is not the case - but I’d be interested in the stats.

This isn’t victim blaming, but more about protecting our children.

I went to a Beyoncé concert recently and in the row in front of me, two mums had brought their teenage daughters they must have been about 14 years old and they were wearing next to nothing - I was in shock.

Agree about comment questioning why designers are even creating this clothing in the first place. It’s very disturbing!

Tbh paedophiles would be just as likely to sexualise children who are wearing completely ordinary children's clothes. That's kind of the point - they're paedophiles. And there are situations where it's completely appropriate to wear less clothing, swimming for example. Would you be shocked by that? If not then it's not about seeing bodies, it's about the associations you're making.

Those girls were with their mum, they were at a Beyonce concert and obviously wanted to look the part. Sounds like it was a safe environment to do so and it's not really any of your business. At fourteen they could have been wearing adult sizes so I don't see how designers come into it, although I agree there are some clothes made for younger children that I personally wouldn't find appropriate. But no decent person would sexualise them because of that, so it comes back to perverts again. The problem lies with them, so I don't think it's helpful to get into this mindset that wearing certain clothing is innately a sexual signal. Culturally we may view it like that, but we also need to change the cultural thinking that assumes a short skirt for example is meant to be provocative or makes someone fair game. In Victorian times, an ankle would have been viewed as very risqué; OTOH they didn't seem to object to a heaving bosom if my love of period dramas is anything to go by. So it's really just our cultural baggage.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 18:34

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:13

Tbh paedophiles would be just as likely to sexualise children who are wearing completely ordinary children's clothes. That's kind of the point - they're paedophiles. And there are situations where it's completely appropriate to wear less clothing, swimming for example. Would you be shocked by that? If not then it's not about seeing bodies, it's about the associations you're making.

Those girls were with their mum, they were at a Beyonce concert and obviously wanted to look the part. Sounds like it was a safe environment to do so and it's not really any of your business. At fourteen they could have been wearing adult sizes so I don't see how designers come into it, although I agree there are some clothes made for younger children that I personally wouldn't find appropriate. But no decent person would sexualise them because of that, so it comes back to perverts again. The problem lies with them, so I don't think it's helpful to get into this mindset that wearing certain clothing is innately a sexual signal. Culturally we may view it like that, but we also need to change the cultural thinking that assumes a short skirt for example is meant to be provocative or makes someone fair game. In Victorian times, an ankle would have been viewed as very risqué; OTOH they didn't seem to object to a heaving bosom if my love of period dramas is anything to go by. So it's really just our cultural baggage.

I wish to not get berated, but I disagree.
I would never have been allowed to dress like that at their age, and it was the friends that I was with who actually pointed it out and said they couldn’t believe what they were wearing and how their mums allowed to dress like that. Now I am much older, I am well aware of the male gaze, and I wouldn’t want a man to look at my daughter like that. Yes, you’re right - a paedophile or a pervert will still sexualise those fully clothed, but that’s not the point I am making here. I’m also not victim blaming either, I just think we need to dress more modestly. Those are my personal views and I don’t feel I should be called a misogynist for having them either, hope you appreciate that.

At some point, I do think we need to take accountability for ourselves and protect our children.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:38

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 18:34

I wish to not get berated, but I disagree.
I would never have been allowed to dress like that at their age, and it was the friends that I was with who actually pointed it out and said they couldn’t believe what they were wearing and how their mums allowed to dress like that. Now I am much older, I am well aware of the male gaze, and I wouldn’t want a man to look at my daughter like that. Yes, you’re right - a paedophile or a pervert will still sexualise those fully clothed, but that’s not the point I am making here. I’m also not victim blaming either, I just think we need to dress more modestly. Those are my personal views and I don’t feel I should be called a misogynist for having them either, hope you appreciate that.

At some point, I do think we need to take accountability for ourselves and protect our children.

I don't think I berated you or called you a misogynist, but ok.

Agree to disagree.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 18:40

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:38

I don't think I berated you or called you a misogynist, but ok.

Agree to disagree.

Thank you, no it wasn’t you, it was another PP suggesting I join the misogynist apology club or something.

That is absolutely fine to disagree.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:56

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 18:40

Thank you, no it wasn’t you, it was another PP suggesting I join the misogynist apology club or something.

That is absolutely fine to disagree.

No problem.

It does seem contradictory though to say that any pervert will 'perve' anyway but also that we should protect our children by covering them up. Tbf I don't think most posters on this thread are advocating dressing children up like they're going to a club night, the majority of discussion has been about rightfully putting the blame where it belongs, as well as pointing out that clothes or the lack of them don't 'protect' us anyway.

And I would say being at a Beyoncé concert accompanied by their parents those girls probably felt they were safe and free to wear whatever they felt like, which is a positive as far as I'm concerned.

pointythings · 26/06/2025 19:09

I’m also not victim blaming either, I just think we need to dress more modestly.

That's victim blaming. Sorry, it is. I'm sad you can't see it.

pointythings · 26/06/2025 19:10

Insanityisnotastrategy · 26/06/2025 18:38

I don't think I berated you or called you a misogynist, but ok.

Agree to disagree.

That was me, and it was conditional on @RowsOfFlowers agreeing with OP. Which she does indeed appear to do. So if the shoe fits...

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 19:37

pointythings · 26/06/2025 19:09

I’m also not victim blaming either, I just think we need to dress more modestly.

That's victim blaming. Sorry, it is. I'm sad you can't see it.

Sorry, how is that victim-blaming?

We do not live in a safe world, I’m not going to contribute to the further sexualisation of women and girls. Quite frankly, I’m sick of it. There are some really sick people out there.

pointythings · 26/06/2025 20:00

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 19:37

Sorry, how is that victim-blaming?

We do not live in a safe world, I’m not going to contribute to the further sexualisation of women and girls. Quite frankly, I’m sick of it. There are some really sick people out there.

Have you read the entire thread yet? I suspect not.

But here you go in case it's TL:DR : The only person responsible for a rape is the person who is doing the raping. Not the victim. No matter what he or she is wearing.

Rape happens frequently in countries where women are legally obliged to cover up - because in those countries, rape within marriage is not a crime.

In a nutshell: rapists gonna rape. You stop them by prosecuting them properly, sentencing them hard, and on the other end, teaching young men respect for women - no matter what they are wearing.

Blaming the clothes = victim blaming. No matter how much that thought makes you squirm. Quite frankly, I'm sick of women being their own worst enemy.

RowsOfFlowers · 26/06/2025 20:03

pointythings · 26/06/2025 20:00

Have you read the entire thread yet? I suspect not.

But here you go in case it's TL:DR : The only person responsible for a rape is the person who is doing the raping. Not the victim. No matter what he or she is wearing.

Rape happens frequently in countries where women are legally obliged to cover up - because in those countries, rape within marriage is not a crime.

In a nutshell: rapists gonna rape. You stop them by prosecuting them properly, sentencing them hard, and on the other end, teaching young men respect for women - no matter what they are wearing.

Blaming the clothes = victim blaming. No matter how much that thought makes you squirm. Quite frankly, I'm sick of women being their own worst enemy.

Thanks for this.

I did have a browse through the thread yes.

I agree with you — it’s 100% the perpetrators fault. But we can still stay safe xx

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 26/06/2025 20:11

@RowsOfFlowersdefine more modestly.

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