How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

[Hadmysay]

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

I suppose it's good in a way to have this thread up to see where thinking this way can lead you. But be clear, I think your focus is all wrong.

I don't think rapists of children give a shit what girls wear or what they look like. What they cared about was that they were vulnerable. They hung about after school and picked them up in taxis bevause they could and because nothing happened to them when they did. They raped and tortured them because they could and nothing happened to them when they did. Raped girls who tried to do something were prosecuted.

What I DON'T think is that this means that prople that refuse to let girls out of the house and shame them for wearing incorrect clothes are therefore right. The rapists are wrong, and they would be wrong if the girls went to school naked and wrong if they wore army fatigues.

Girls thinking they should wear skirts up to their bums at school is a separate issue entirely, as is far too high a rate of obesity in adolescence.

Is it true that 1 in 10 men are gay? Yet are men raped by gay men in 10% of rape cases? I expect not, although obviously it does happen. The biggest problem is men targeting girls and women - it’s both a men problem, and a men’s view of women problem, with the latter exacerbated by porn that promotes the view that all women and girls, regardless of clothing, are objects for them to abuse if they want.
Sadly global stats while useful within country for over time reviews, aren’t accurate for cross country comparisons given cultures, confidence/safety to report, and police response varies so hugely by country.

The most prolific rapist in the UK was a man who lived near a club and would take drunk men back to his place, drug and rape them. He had hundreds of victims.

I don't remember their clothing ever being mentioned.🤔

I don't think it's pornography in general that influences rape culture, it's more the type of porn.

Showing rough sex as normal normalises rape. Videos showing women being choked , held down, used like a piece of meat...If porn was all gentle loving sex it wouldn't have the same affect.

Women's bodies are not the problem.

On Muslim Mnetters some claim they felt super safe in Dubai or Saudi Arabia. But really?

The skirts have gotten much more shorter though and it's more girls doing it now

There should be no need to discuss women’s behaviour or dress.

There should be if in contributes to the objectification and oppression of women

A lot of men don't.
What don't you get?

A lot of men don't what?

Did it work no but it worked much better that it did now.
I don't know If you have noticed this but sexual offences has risen.

Walk around half naked in a sexually provocative manner.

Reports have risen, that doesn't mean there are more sexual offences.

I have a couple of sexual assaults under my belt, some more serious than other. All of them from men/boys I knew. None of them in a short skirt.

Age 11, my cousin. No idea what I was wearing because I don’t remember much. Mostly short flashbacks and smells.

Age 13, my classmates on a residential. Shorts and a tshirt. Same thing they were wearing.

Age 14 , my grandfather. Trakkie bottoms and a Tshirt.

Age 17 , my maths tutor. Jeans and a baggy jumper.

That’s just the highlights.

All of them minimised, and I was either laughed at or blamed for, so yes society is also the problem, but please tell me more about how my clothing was the real issue and not men.

Why do you think?

I'm asking you because you made the statement.

Yeah I was confused reading the initial replies to this! Glad someone else read it correctly.

And what has that lead to?
Anything positive?
My gosh I can't belive you said it's normal development for underage girls to dress like prostitutes. And you want to encourage it as well.
You are sick.
Some of you women who encourage this are just as disgusting as the men.
Could you imagine a man encouraging young girls to dress sexually provocatively and saying its normal development. he would be labeled a nonce.

What was your question?

This is so utterly ridiculous.
It's insulting to both men and women.
Men don't objectify women because of what they are wearing. Do you think men in countries where women have to wear burkas objectify women less?
There are terrible men and there are good men and everything in between and wearing a short skirt or not is not going to somehow change those men.
And frankly I expect better from men. And I do not see why I shouldn't expect better.
I'm going to live my life and encourage my daughters to live their life, taking zero responsibility for the shitty behaviour of some men.. despite any efforts by society to pin it onto them.
I have absolutely had enough.
It's so deeply insulting to suggest how we dress defines our character or how we are treated in life. As though we were barbie dolls!! We are all complex human beings who fundamentally deserve to be treated as such regardless of our appearance. And I absolutely will not be told that my worth lies in my appearance somehow. Get to fuck with that nonsense.
You do understand that be using words such as modest you only add to the objectification of women.
There's no such fucking thing as modest.
Why should we accept our legs as sexual? Why should we accept that kids trying to look trendy is some kind of sexual advance towards men? It's not. I can understand that. And men could understand that if they wanted to.
Areas we cover just become more sexualosed and taboo.

Think for example of a woman walking in a short skirt in a country where women are supposed to be covered head to toe.. this will be seen 100% as sexual behaviour regardless of intent. Whereas here where it is more accepted, I could wear a skirt which showed my knees and no one would bat an eyelid. Men wouldn't act as tho I was a prostitute for showing my body.
So how do you think this modesty should work? Whose standards should we base it on? Which parts of our bodies are inherently sexual according to you? How far down the leg does a skirt have to go according to you to not be sexual?
Can you see how ridiculous this is and how it adds to objectification rather than stops it?
In my mind my vagina is my only inherently sexual partners of my body and even then only in some contexts.
Honestly wish we could get to a stage in society where women were truly free. To express themselves through fashion if they want, to express sexuality if they want, to not wear very much but just for comfort purposes rather than trying to look any certain way, to cover themselves up for fashion or for comfort.. to really be free of constantly being handed back the responsibility of male reactions and behaviours. To not have any of it thought of as some symbol of who they truly are.
We aren't dolls. You can wear a push up bra and be a nuclear physicist. You can walk around looking like mother Theresa and be an absolute piece of shit. What women wear doesn't equate to their worth as human beings and it's not why men do or say or act like anything.

Are you a man?
Because that is really skewed by the male gaze.

It's all misogynist drivel.

That’s the simplified reason, what many people deliberately miss is that the girls targeted weren’t from nice middle class homes and doing well in schools. Not the vast majority anyway.

Many (not all) were in PRUs, in foster care, in children’s homes, excluded from school etc - they were extremely vulnerable and in some cases not properly supervised. That is the type of girls these sick men target. In that particular community most of the girls who fit that bill were white.

Most British Pakistani teens in Rotherham are not necessarily under lock and key but are treated pretty strictly and expected to account for their whereabouts at all times.

Plus if it got back to their parents they’d been seen with random men it would’ve been over for them so there’s a family/societal fear element too.

I worked with children in care in west London and there was not so much huge organised grooming gangs but there were many individual or smaller groups of men (mainly white) who tried to groom the young girls in care who were from a mix of cultures. The last case I remember involved a black 13 year old and her friends being groomed by black and mixed race young men.

TDLR: it had nothing to do with how they dressed and more about their vulnerability and who these disgusting men had access too.

How is it offensive ? I said they are dressed like prostitutes because they are dressed like prostitutes not that they are prostitutes.
That's how prostitutes dress. Short skirt up their backsides in a sexually provocative manner to attract customers. Whether they are children or not that's neither here nor there. The fact that children are dressed like that shows you how much we have failed as a society. So again 13 year olds dressing like that is a sexualized image and they shouldn't be dressed like that.

They're children and the only people who see their clothes as 'provocative' are perverts.

And I'm asking you why do you think.
Think of some reasons for me why its not good for society