Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

[snughugs]

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

Look around you at all the married or coupled up people. How many of them are that old trope of 6ft 2 earning 100k+. The evidence of your own eyes is there. The vast majority of us happily married people are not insta models or high earners. We are normal people and yet we manage to get meet, fall in love, etc etc.

I'm an adult who grew up without social media & yet I still get surprised on a trip to a beach that actually I'm not surrounded by supermodels!

Many have no male parent or close relative which is why they turn to online

I think what’s meant is by time spent and invested in your child. In my opinion I think all children do well when quality time is spent with the child/teenager. If parents are more interested in themselves and their time well of course kids go to their room watching rubbish on the internet. If they’re taken out regularly and spend the evening together watching together you’re bonding. I agree parents were not necessarily taking their teens out to football games or tournaments or breaks every week in the 1980s but more Mothers were at home. Now Mothers are exhausted and do housework weekends as they’re working. I look around and see the happiest and highest achieving kids is where the parents are invested in their interests and studies, being their cheerleader.

Really? No uncle, grandad, brother or cousins?

A poster made a great point about Andrew Tate being a BBC Boogeyman and a distinct lack of curiosity in WHY boys are looking for acceptance in these fringe narratives

1. the education system massively fails boys at an alarming rate has no real interest in them, specifically of a lower income it’s no surprise that groups like the EDL are disproportionately made up of the poorly educated white boys.

2. how are boys specifically young portrayed in media, specifically more liberal type media what is messages are being sent to them.

3. what positive alternatives are being given?
   sport is a great outlet but ….what if you don’t like sport? ….genuinely and in a cost of living crisis where everything is so expensive and fewer children “play out” now.

4. role models at home,is their a dad at home? How is the dad? does mum have any free time? Does she have friends?

lots of factors involved

In my opinion I think all children do well when quality time is spent with the child/teenager.

I agree but I just don't agree that in the past parents were spending loads of time with their children & teenagers. Mothers generally had more dc & less household gadgets so chores took longer & many adults left home as older teenagers. I think something else is going on.

@TheNaturalBronde Boys seem to be doing ok considering how much they're being failed by society. They generally out earn women and hold the most powerful jobs.

People are being indoctrinated and radicalised online in every strata of society. Extreme views are becoming mainstream and children have unfettered access to these views. It's very easy to get sucked in, especially when you lack critical thinking skills.

I thought men no longer out earn women, it's only when women take time out for dc that men move ahead?

As i said in my post the lower attaining, lower income men are more vulnerable to this kind of material ,

If you leave school with very low literacy etc and having been told lots of negative things about yourself you won’t be out earning many people and frankly it will be the least of their problems.

as a society we’re desperate to ignore how badly we let boys from
a different demographics down and do this faux naïveté as to why they are looking elsewhere for acceptance
and yes we absolutely let low achieving low income girls down too, in a different way equally as damaging.

Could not agree more with this.

Women rarely appreciate just how scare praise, support and encouragement is in many boys / men's lives.

That's very unlikely given that women bring up sons.

Women under 30 now out earn men in the same age range.

Where men earn more it not because they are men, its because they typically:

1. Work in more dangerous industries.
2. Work in more scalable industries.
3. Work more hours.
4. Are less agreeable / neurotic.

You're (wo)mansplaining to a man that men / boys get little praise in life?

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) reports that in April 2024, the gender pay gap for full-time employees was 7.0%, meaning men's median hourly earnings excluding overtime were higher than women's.

Women are more likely to do part time work to fit around childcare. Although the GPG is less pronounced under 40, it widens with age.

Women are more likely to be carers, either paid or unpaid which interferes with earnings. The GPG tends to be larger in higher paying occupations.

Traditionally female roles such as nursing, childcare and caring tend to be poorly paid.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) calculates the gender pay gap based on median hourly earnings across all jobs, not specifically comparing men and women in identical roles with the same qualifications and experience. Therefore, while the overall gap provides a general overview, it doesn't directly reflect disparities in "like-for-like" positions. If Amazon could pay women 7% less to be truck drivers they would employ no men.

Childcare arrangements are up to individual parents to agree.

Traditionally female roles pay similar rates to traditionally male roles, however men tend to work in more scalable roles than women. If a guy is an electrician it's quite easy to earn more by starting his own business. A woman working as a nurse or teacher can't do this. No one is stopping women from being electricians or car mechanics etc. they apparently just don't want to do it.

You're coming across as quite naive. Childcare and housework tends to be dumped on women, rather than through choice. The majority of women don't want to carry the whole burden of the family.

It's been proven time and again that men are paid more than women for similar roles. There have been several court cases where shop assistants were awarded the same wage as warehouse assistants.

You're skipping centuries of restrictions on women and the work they were permitted to do. It wasn't until the 70s that equal pay laws were brought in.

There is still a lot of bias regarding women in the workplace and it's an indisputable fact that men are better paid the higher up you go. There are also far few women in powerful roles.

Could you give an example of a male role that pays the same as a nurse given the hours, qualifications and training?

Arrangements in the home are between those in the relationship.

Your simplistic version also excludes a wide range of typically male jobs needed for running a home, grass cutting, tip runs, DIY, care washing, etc etc.

Shop assistants aren't warehouse operatives - why should they be paid the same?

Men in senior positions are better paid due to the big 5 characteristics, not because they have a penis - who's being naive here?

You evidently are. It's a well known fact that women are lumbered with the majority of childcare and housework. No one wants the burden of working and doing everything around the home. In fact women sometimes drop their hours because they're overwhelmed. You're naive if you think women are choosing it.

No, they're occasional jobs. In the summer you cut the lawn once a week. You might put up a shelf once a year. But you have to frequently cook, clean, change nappies, breastfeed, meal plan, shop, bathe the children, feed the pets, do pick ups, organise admin, buy clothes etc

Men in senior positions are paid more than women for the same job.

The shop assistants and warehouse assistants were doing equivalent work.

Can you name a male role which involves the same level of work, training and qualifications that pays similar to a nurse please?

According to google average pay for a professional engineer is £38K

According to Nurse.co.uk: Various job boards and recruitment sites that track the salaries of jobs they post suggest the average wage of a UK nurse is somewhere around the £37,000 to £42,000 a year mark.

I think we have focused so much on women, that young boys have been left behind. For eg yes we should encourage girls into STEM , but why aren't we paving the way for boys too? Boys are getting left behind in education . We've focused so much on girls, we have lost boys

Nurses start on around 23k a year
https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/

A nurse has a degree and works shifts. They have much more responsibility than an engineer. They're not equivalent jobs.

Do you ever wonder why. Women care about providing a clean space for their children. We literally have a nesting instinct. We notice mess, men don't.its just one of those differences between men and women.

A professional engineer has a degree, lots work shifts, they design and repair aircraft, nuclear power plants, chemical works. They are both jobs with plenty of responsibility.

Studies show women report more discomfort with mess / clutter than men, this would suggest their reasons for tidying are on some level self serving.