Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

[snughugs]

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

The latest ONS figures show 3.8% of men and 7.1% of women were victims of domestic abuse in 2023 (latest figures I could find).

However figures for men are significantly under reported. the UK Crime Survey (ONS, 2022) found only 51% of male victims told anyone about the abuse (vs. 81% of female victims) only 19% of male victims reported it to the police (vs. 31% of women).

If you account for this about 22.9% of women and 20% of men were victims of abuse in the period.

So it is predominantly men who abuse.

So how about men that go to prison commit crimes. They do it in greater numbers don’t they? Are all crimes because the woman made them do it? Men in general murder more, they’re more dangerous. Men are more likely to be paedophiles they’re more likely to be drug dealers to have weapons.

I imagine they've all been falsely accused. I don't understand why men come out with this time and time again when the crime stats are there in black and white.

Predominately would typically imply by a significant margin.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/predominantly

It is by a significant margin and predominantly means mostly.

Jails are mainly full of men for two a range of reasons.

We tend to jail people for the kind of offences men commit (violent, sexual and drug related crimes).

Unequal treatment in the criminal justice system. The University of Manchester ran a big study in 2020 that found “Men are 2.84 times more likely than women to receive a custodial sentence when all other legal factors are held constant.”

There is generally less support for men in need in society leading more men being forced to commit crime to survive.

Specifically talking about violent crims, on average men are slightly more aggressive than women, this isn't a big difference in the middle but is significant at the extremes. People going to jail for violent crimes are often in the top fraction of a percent for aggressiveness, these people are almost all men.

There's a range of reasons why men are more aggressive, some are hormonal/biological, some are linked to the poor provision of mental health care for men, some are societal, some are trauma relates - ex service personnel etc.

The ONS 73% of victims homicide and 68% of victims of all assault / wounding etc are men.

Men are more often both the victims and perpetrators of violent crimes.

Men are more likely to commit drug offences as this is one of the easiest crimes for them to turn to in times of financial need. Women more often turn to sex work.

You think the 22.9% vs 20% is a significant margin? I'd call that a statistical variance.

It's made up.

Data supplied from 28 police forces showed that the victim was female in 73.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes recorded by the police in the year ending March 2023, compared with 26.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes where the victim was male. This proportion was similar for most offence categories. For domestic abuse-related sexual offences, the proportion of female victims was 93.0%, compared with 7.0% for males (Figure 3). These findings follow trends seen over previous years.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023

Can't help thinking the way fathers treat their partners will have the biggest influence on boys, and indeed on girls.

Hold on a minute, you know those statistics included male on male gay relationships? They’re always beating each other up, you failing to acknowledge this. We know gay relationships are often very volatile.

Are you quoting the right person?

Using your figures:

In 2024 5.7% of women reported being victims of DV - 81% of women told someone so if we factor in this that's about 7% of all women were victims.

In 2024 3.2% of men reported being victims of DV - 51% of men told someone so that's so if we factor in this that's about 6.7% of all men were victims.

They probably were victims. What point are you trying to make? There's a lot of male on male violence and men are way more likely to be victims of male violence.

Children learn their behaviours and expectations from both parents.

They model themselves on men.

My point is that the difference between sex of victims of domestic abuse is probably smaller than the Daily Mail would have you believe.

About 95% of men in the UK identify as hetrosexual so I think we can take your homophobic comment with a pinch of statistical salt.

Children learn behaviors by observing and imitating their parents, a process known as modeling. Both mothers and fathers serve as role models, but their influences can differ based on various factors.
👨‍👩‍👧 Parental Influence on Child Behavior

• Maternal Influence: Mothers often engage in nurturing and caregiving roles. Their interactions can significantly impact a child's emotional development and social behaviors.
• Paternal Influence: Fathers frequently encourage exploration and play, contributing to a child's independence and risk-taking abilities. Their involvement is crucial in developing problem-solving skills and confidence.

Not just homosexuals these statistics included boys/men who beat their Fathers and terrorise other siblings. All adds up men are more violent.

I wasn't being homophobic, I was pointing out that men are by far the most aggressive sex which is reflected in crime statistics. It's a fact that men are more likely to be attacked by other men.

Women tend to model themselves on their mothers and boys on their fathers. Boys model themselves on men which is the point of the thread.

Honestly I know this thread isn't specifically about Adolescence, but one thing I see rarely talked about in regards to the conversation stemming from the show is social media and online access as a whole rather than zeroing in on one specific ingredient in the pie.

Its all well and good blaming Andrew Tate/ the "manosphere" / Incel culture - but the thing my DH and I took from the ending when we watched it before seeing the wider response to it was re; parenting and access to the Internet and smart phones and having their own social media accounts etc where parents largely have 0 clue what's going on or being said or what type of content is easily accessible.

The ending, to my DH and I, where the parents were talking about where they went wrong or what they could've done better or differently and coming up blank, to us at least, seemed like it was trying to pass comment on how parents don't think of the above as a problem and in a lot of cases just consider it so much of a norm that its not even considered as something potentially problematic or dangerous to young minds.

Instagram, as mentioned is the show is full of, essentially, porn.
Between that and the advancements of AI I think there's a massive underestimation of just how much young boys and girls are seeing online thats really quite explicit and just what seeing that kind of thing does to warp you.

it doesn't seem a coincidence to me that boys are seeing women objectified and learning that manosphere bs, and girls are seeing women objectified and wanting to identify their way out of it...
That, or leaning into it themselves and exacerbating the problem.

I'm not passing comment either way on actual parenting, but as now adults who grew up with the Internet and the dawn of smart phones and all these apps etc as kids and teens, thats how DH and I took it - Andrew Tate was only mentioned once and in passing really.
DH and I had SO much access to online, and we both think it was more damaging to both of us than we probably realise, in many different ways.

Am expecting to be picked apart for saying this, but fuckit - its my thoughts on it, we're all allowed them! :')

A fantastic role model in what way though? Parents need to be actively engaged in their dc's day to day lives, it takes time and effort, lots of parents don't make the time or effort.

Was it normal in the past to have actively engaged parents? I'm not sure

What are young boys confused by?

I think society & the media gives very mixed messages around women & relationships