Should we bring back more single sex schools

[Ddakji]

Slightly following on from some of the threads about Adolescence (which I haven’t seen), I started wondering - has the demise of boys’ schools negatively impacted boys?

I’d be really interested to hear from others, especially the parents of boys - I have one DD (15h who’s been in mixed sex schools most of the time but is now in a girls’ school.

I only have boys and i would never send them to single sex

AFAIK the research indicates that single sex schooling is good for girls and bad for boys. Which doesn't at all surprise me.

Why should girls be subject to low level sexual banter and other banter such as he's longing etc.when we agree for adults these are serious employment offences? Do we condition girls to partially accept such behaviour as in reality teachers can't act on it strongly without bringing the school to a halt?

My teenage daughter regularly brings homes takes of boys trying to view girls in a sexual light and there is a misogynistic banter that is just part of the territory. Teachers try and teach respect but it is certainly not reaching some boys.

Boys have may be expectations of a girl friend at some point for the school and can react with all the human emotions when rejected and you bring in a element of romantic drama which is a distraction and in my opinion neither helps educational attainment and can introduce difficult situations when children aren't nature enough to deal with real adult emotion.

Adolescence is about a girl who was murdered. How about educating boys about that rather than trying to socially manipulate the environment. Violent misogyny fails WOMEN.

Yes exactly this! I think this type of low level insidious drip drip drip sexism from boys reinforcing gender (using word advisedly) stereotypes and expectations is hugely problematic

But in terms of what I’m pondering, it also doesn’t suggest that going to school with girls helps boys know how to behave with girls.

We keep hearing how those in single sex schools come out not knowing how to act around the opposite sex.

But also that girls going to school with boys have to deal with them… not knowing how to act around the opposite sex.

I think someone upthread said that perhaps the early to mid teen years are not the ideal time for boys and girls to be mixing, and leaving it a bit later when they’ve had time to mature might be better all round.

I went to a single sex school and only had sisters but as I said in a previous post I also had boyfriends and male friends because it was a school not a nunnery and I didn’t spend 24 hours a day there

I do feel the “oh but how will girls know how to be around boys?” if single sex is a bit of a cop out tbh. There are plenty of ways for girls and boys to mix outside of school and ways for parents to facilitate that.

and yes agree teenage years are probably the worst time to mix

I think that research is out of date now, outcomes have changed.

@Ddakji. I think it’s greatly overstated that girls in single sex schools are timid around boys. It completely ignores that many have brothers, meet friends of brothers, do other activities with boys and, when older, go to parties and socialise. I have several single sex schools near me, DDs went to one and I do not recognise these girls who cannot cope as adults when they get to university. Of course some girls are reticent around the other sex, but that goes for boys too. These dc still exist in co-Ed schools. It’s personality, not education. Overall spending a few hours a day, for 38 weeks of the year in a single sex doesn’t change your personality.

What it can do is provide for girls (and boys in boys’ schools) a tailored education and a space to learn on their own terms. Mixed 6th forms can be very good but not where girls are introduced to improve the boys. It’s rarely the other way around. Girls just get used!

Most of them mix perfectly well and get on just fine.

I would be very nervous about sending girls to an all girls school on mental health grounds - eating disorders etc

But you’d be fine to risk her getting sexually assaulted in a mixed school? Not sure that’s going help her mental health much.

I’m being facetious but it’s interesting that advocates for girls in mixed schools always seem to skate over the downsides for girls there while magnifying perceived issue for girls in single sex schools.

I wonder how many girls have eating disorders in girls’ schools versus how many girls are sexually harassed and assaulted in mixed schools. And what data is there in the mental health of girls in girls’ schools versus mixed schools.

Even that data could be tainted by co-ed primary experiences though. I know 2 who moved to all girls to get away from boys. Their experiences might show as having MH issues at an all girls but really was caused in a co-ed.

I think the school is a reflection of the parenting at home, possibly pastoral care if just one kid is acting out. I think we need to challenge men in our homes to have the tough talks with their sons and create emotional bonds. Preferably not ones that revolve around macho sport/gym type distractions where they don't talk.

Girls still have mental health issues and eating disorders in co ed schools. We've seen a real increase recently. Eating disorders had dropped away a bit but have come back to the fore.

Eating disorders are MH issues. Not exclusively girls and are in all schools. It’s also true girls can be judged by boys and develop MH issues as a result of that. It’s not exclusively a girls’ school issue.

Also, boys less likely to report but doesn't mean that they don't have the same issues.

Single sex schools have been successful historically for a reason and indeed those of a particular religious bent actively desire them.

It seems to be mixed schools is all about economies of scale for teaching and ignores the obvious problem of boys by their very nature viewing girls as sex objects during hormonal adolescent years. How much time are teachers devoting to addressing sexualized banter or even assault on school premises?

Girls and boys will naturally socialise in later years and the benefit of maturity ensures that good relationships are formed including romantic ones. Indeed the formation of premature romantic relationships is one I bet a lot of parents in their inner thoughts secretly dread.

It's not at primary level that toxic masculinity starts though it's at secondary during adolesence. It is here that I believe teachers should be recruited on their teaching skill and not deproffesionalised by having a role model role foisted into their job descrition. There is the underlying illicit suggestion women aren't authoritative enough in the classroom or demand less respect which is really worrying.

I don't think a bit who is prone to toxic masculinity is necessarily going to change his views a great deal because of the presence of a man instead of a woman teaching about cell mitosis or quadratic equations personally. STEM is crying out for more women and women teachers and I don't think we should let the essentially make problem of toxic masculinity shadow such goals.

Ironically my daughters really appreciate female teachers as many historical characters of note in their subjects are male. From William the Conqurer, Shakepeare to Isaac Newton we have an educational landscape littered by men and it is only really in the late 20th and 21st centuries that we are seeing a gender balance in so many fields of life. I think the presence of so many women in the teaching profession is to be welcomed and their success shouldn't be overshadowed by a sudden desire for more men not for teaching ability but as role models?

We wouldn't demand any other professions take on this status so why teachers?

In my experience the boys you can tell at primary are going to have issues with women do have fathers who think women aren't clever/important/as valuable. Often they are the ones who are divorced before the end of primary because they are so hard to live with the mother gives up and would rather parent solo. Maybe that would be a good entry point as many men get so angry at that point they use contact with their kids to rally them against the mother.

@mids2019 I don’t entirely agree that it’s a secondary age issue. Seeds are sown much earlier than that. So many boys do miss out on boy things and being guided by a good dad who is present. By end of primary I think you can begin to tell where the issues might be.

Sorry, I know this is an older thread, but what do you mean by 'free mixing'?

To be fair there can be same-sex romantic drama at girls' schools (or boys' schools) but I agree that girls in particular may have issues if they're at a mixed school & there's dating expectations

It's in the nature of teen boys to be like that? Can't we hope for better?

I partly agree though. At least some boys...

I don't think eating disorders are as common now but they do happen...

Hmm...I think sport etc can actually help men bond and later be able to discuss difficult stuff. But it depends...