Should we bring back more single sex schools

[Ddakji]

Slightly following on from some of the threads about Adolescence (which I haven’t seen), I started wondering - has the demise of boys’ schools negatively impacted boys?

I’d be really interested to hear from others, especially the parents of boys - I have one DD (15h who’s been in mixed sex schools most of the time but is now in a girls’ school.

I think that's the fault of the curriculum/teaching approach rather than other factors.

@Thisissuss I think the issue is more that in mixed schools boys dominate. The teachers don't seem to be able to stop this or see it in many cases, meaning girls are overlooked, not seen as interesting/able purely because generally they are less disruptive

Fwiw the boys don't see it this way at all, at least not at my school. They think the girls "get away with everything" because they're "quiet and sneaky about it" and they feel as though the boys are "picked on" too often and too harshly. Not that I fully agree with the boys, but it's interesting to note their perception.

I would love to have the opportunity to carry out my own research with regards to how many minutes girls are speaking vs how many minutes boys are speaking ( both in turn, and also disruptively) and compare that with the perception of boys, girls and teachers in the room.

What you are effectively saying is girls should suck up getting lower grades, drop their aspirations because men need women around to understand them.

Men not bothering to understand how to be kind to women or talk to them shouldn't be at the expense of girls. Parents need to step up and work on this.

Girls shouldn't be stymied because they are being objectified at school. Girls schools are better for girls, whereas mixed schools are better for boys. That is probably why we are having issues with misogyny - boys cannot stand girls doing better in the real world when they've only seen them as accessories.

No.

Huh? Girls got most of the top grades at my school. I got the top grades in my subjects. Never held back by the boys.

Given the lack of males in my life outside school, I think single sex school was quite harmful in my ability to social interact with males. I think switching me to a co-ed school was just in time to help me form healthier relationships with males. I was getting increasingly intimidated by them until I spent time with them regularly and found out they were just normal people.

As a female, co-ed definitely was beneficial to me.

Is it not that we are simply seeing a backlash against feminism? In society in general. This, combined with porn, is fuelling misogny.

I also believe that young men need to be out in nature, doing physical activities, being given a purpose. Whether it be scouting type stuff or traditional trades. Too many of these traditionally masculine activities have been curtailed due to a combination of insurance issues, overly enthusiastic risk assessment and fears around male volunteers being a danger to the boys. Some of which is justified, some of which isn’t. There are a ton of little “jobs” around our local area needing doing - painting fences, repairing things, plant and tree care, litter picking, pulling rubbish out of the river… you name it. And a bunch of disengaged teenagers hanging around with nothing to do. And yet…. join the dots. Humans need a purpose and for many of us it can involve physical labour. Sitting on screens and loitering isn’t helping humanity.

Girls shouldn't be stymied because they are being objectified at school. Girls schools are better for girls, whereas mixed schools are better for boys

This suggests that at mixed schools, boys perform better than girls. Girls still perform better than boys at mixed schools.

But it seems that if we are looking at increasing boys' performance at school (which is a major societal issue), single sex schools are not the answer.

Yes, I agree with much of this - which is what led on to me thinking that having boys schools could help - with creating a timetable or learning environment that allows for a greater physical release and creating a sense of purpose and worth.

I understand that the world isn’t segregated (though my world, both work and family, has been female dominated since forever), but that doesn’t mean it’s helpful to ignore male and female socialisation, but instead look at how that can be done in a positive way. Men and women are different. We’ve seen the damage that’s been done in recent years by pretending that they are the same.

(A quick reminder that I posted this in Feminism Chat!)

While I agree kids (of both sexes) should be doing more around the community (largely seen as a woman's role - eg helping out with school events/church/baking so poss why men reject helping in community?), I also think we need to not continue to avoid the emotional. If we just keep kids busy (like the dad in Adolescence) without talking about the hard things going on, we simply make the person ignore it for longer. It seems we may need the emotional opening up and understanding for boys to be introduced first.

Again, if boys aren't looking at the bigger picture of life (emotional included) they can't possibly engage fully. How can they understand what school is about or why subjects might be important? Many seem to be taught home that it is not macho to be good, or to do well at school. That is the problem, which is psychological, cultural and emotional.

From what I've seen, boys are more likely to think of girls as no different to boys if they go to co-ed schools, and more likely to have some strange ideas about girls if they have no sisters and attend boys only schools. My daughter (age 20) now refuses to date boys that went to single sex schools who do not have a sister because, in her experience, they are mysoginistic and have unrealistic ideas and expectations.

Hmm my brother and I went to single sex schools. We are not close, never have been so didn't really interact or mix with friends.
We both had very strange relationships with the opposite sex.
I absolutely became a pick me girl. He became a mysogynist.
Now we're both in mid - late 30s and had more exposure we've managed to shake a lot of these bad habits.
Academically we both did very well and had very solid friendships. My DH went to a coed school, socially he is much, much better and more comfortable with the opposite sex than I am.

DS is at a boy's school. He is very respectful of women and a feminist (probably due to my influence at home) and often points out sexism when he sees it.

DD is at a mixed school and currently seems to think all boys are idiots.

I don't allow that. When girls say "all boys are idiots" I don't let that pass. I remind them of how kind and thoughtful some of their classmates are, helpful and collaborative. I teach some of the loveliest boys - and girls - and see so many positives every day.

I had to move a lot due to my parents work so went to both coed high schools (two) and single sex (two) in different cities - so a much broader experience than most people.

without a shadow of a doubt for me, single sex is better for girls and had I had DD that’s where they would have gone (and I would have paid for private single sex if necessary).

to add - my sons are at mixed schools. My preference for single sex is only for girls.

I went to a single sex secondary school - it was bitchy, cliquey, and like a real life 'Rita, Sue and Bob too' film.

If sex segregation led to people being less extreme, we’d see prisoners becoming more mellow and reasonable over time. However I suspect that’s not the case and that it makes men more aggressive and extreme in their views about women because they are egged on by the other men.

My mum attended school in the '20s and '30s - a state primary and a state junior secondary.

The former was mixed sex and the latter second sex. She told me that once she moved into the girl's secondary school, she felt a sense of freedom.

I don’t think that telling girls their perceptions of their classmates is wrong is great, to be honest.

It's not a perception of the classmates. It's a negative, sweeping generalisation that should not be reinforced.
That is school policy about ethnicity, gender, sex, perceived sexuality or physical appearance

In our city we have a single sex boy's and a single sex girl's school. Both are highly over-subscribed, so no risk of either being closed down. There are other options too in the same city, so it's not as if parents/pupils don't have a choice. So I'd say it's wrong to say single sex schools are unpopular. The ones in our city have exceptional results, top Ofsted ratings, etc., so they must be doing something right.

The girl's school in particular has a much higher proportion of girls taking the sciences and technical subjects, right through to A level, compared with average schools. And at the boys school, the art, music and cookery subjects are very popular, especially an after school baking "club" which is hugely over-subscribed and they've had to do a carousel of pupils only being able to do a term at a time to rotate and let others have a go!

I think single sex schools really can challenge the stereotypes for both sexes and give them more freedom to be who they want to be rather than choosing subjects, clubs, sports, etc., because they're traditional male/female options.

I didn't say that she goes around saying that literally all boys are idiots. I wouldn't let either of my DC call anyone an idiot.

But she has an extremely low opinion of the boys in her class. Mainly because they are disruptive, do stupid things and get into trouble all the time. She has no desire to spend time with people like that.

Of course she knows that not ALL boys are like that (and her brother is lovely) but that is her general impression of the boys in her class. There are only 7 boys in her class (out of 25) and they all seem to get into trouble. She says none of them are kind or hard-working.

I don't blame her for having that impression of boys in general when this has overwhelmingly been her experience.

Ok, that's different.

My children all went single sex for grammar schools after mixed state primaries.

I was at girls' high school and I definitely wanted my daughter to go to one. She doesn't have to deal with harassment from boys or distraction and subjects like physics and computer science aren't "boys" subjects". When she had an open day for a mixed sixth form college there were only two girls in the physics taster class and that felt awkward to her. She was also annoyed at a boy who dominated the class, but kept giving wrong answers.