Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

[rouxelitee]

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

It's not about the issue, it's about the OP's presentation of herself as a lone martyr who has been 'disowned' due to supposedly close friends on a group chat saying they didn't have the headspace to discuss an issue, her already knowing they didn't want to talk about it and yet rudely persevering with it.

Joan of Arc she ain't. They way she has presented herself is as someone who has acted rudely and has a persecution complex.

If anyone wanted to talk about their contentious beliefs on a group chat and it was clear it wasn't welcome, then to persist is plain old bad manners.

nailed it

@pikkumyy77 Curiosity is not a right. Children have a right to have their views heard and considered, but not necessarily acted upon. That autonomy has its limits where protection is needed. Children do have a right to protection, especially when their safety, health and/or longterm well-being is at stake, which in this case it clearly is since social transition can lead to the use of puberty blockers and medical transition.

How do you envision teachers, who are not trained in mental health, never mind being specialists in gender dysphoria and common commorbiditis such as autism and trauma, and who have very little information about the background of children to "support their autonomy" when it comes to gender dysphoria? I find that view naive at best, irresponsible at worst. Many of these children are highly complex. Mental health professionals struggle to find their way through this mess and you want children to take the lead and teachers to support them without the knowledge of their parents?

How do you exclude an element of social contagion? If you don't think there is an element of social contagion, how do you explain the historically unprededented increase of over 4000% (!) in girls with gender dysphoria presenting at GIDS over the past 8 years? All of a sudden over 70% of adolescents presenting at GIDS were girls, when historically over 90% were boys and men. Why? Does that not worry you?

It makes me think that we need to be very careful and cautious in our approach and study the existing evidence very carefully.

All that teachers are being asked to do is follow a child’s lead in naming and addressing them. This is not medicine or psychology. The amount of bad faith hysteria over this of off the charts in this thread.

It’s social transitioning behind the parents back. The child is going to school and being treated as the opposite sex with no consent or input off the patents. They have zero right to make these significant changes to a child life

This thread is forgetting how cruel other children can be and don't care about there peers autonomy or right to identify or their sexuality. I had a friend who was gay he only went to school for one term in 5 years because of the bullying. They pick on the kids who are different and those kids who get picked on gets no support from the school or home because their parents have no idea what's going on. Parents have no idea their child feels suicidal from the lack of support there child is receiving.

My daughter was at college with a girl who identified as a boy. They were in the 14 to 16 class in college. My daughter was homeschooled and she wanted to go college to do her GCSES. The young trans boy in her class left mainstream school to go to college instead. He eventually killed himself most probably because of the trauma he went through at school. He had a supportive mother but it wasn't enough. He was let down by the system.

This isn’t about bring gender critical or not. It’s not about that particular issue at all. It’s about banging on about a contentious issue in an inappropriate space. It could be nuclear disarmament, the disestablishment of the church, inheritance tax, anything.

I'm all for sticking up for your opinions, but a mom friend WhatsApp group is not the place to continually get on any soapbox, especially when the group has made it clear that this is neither the time nor the place. And you can bet your mortgage that this is not the first (or even the eighth) time op has shoe horned this issue in where it’s not wanted.

If the friend with the initials has to handle this thorny issue all day at work I’m not surprised she has no headspace for it in a friendly group chat.

and in RL most people aren’t as obsessed with this issue as parts of mn would have you believe.

It is also highly destabilising for the child to live a different identities in school and at home - different names, different genders, different interactions. It's detrimental to the child's mental health.

For an adult to live a double life it's unsustainable and is terrible for his/her mental health, let a lone a teenager whose brain is still developing and unable to regulate. Regardless of one's view on the gender topic, in my opinion, it's highly alarming that schools can enable children to have second identity at school and go out of their way to hide the fact from parents. Read 7.4 of the policy. During school parents event, the school will revert to using the child's original name so that the parents will not know.

I don't think you have any insights of my friendship group or how it was brought up. The topic ranges from how AI will affect children, screen times to cooking, to family relationship. Two of my friends actually thanked me for bringing this up and reminding them to read their school policies.

That's not the DOE guidance, probably worth mentioning that.

Also, the only way to figure out contentious issues it to discuss it, in an evidence based way, especially when it involves children. We have a duty to make this right for them. All parents are learning how to navigate this dangerous topic - there are increasingly more more evidence lately that socially and medically transitioning children do not help them with their mental health, and actually sterilised them for life. Like one of the poster says, professionals are struggling to figure this out, and it is not the right time to shut down debate.

I actually don't understand why
parents like my friends are not passionate to learn about how the schools will interact with parents on this matter, and the contract they have signed up to when their kids enrolled with schools.

I suppose when they see the word trans-kids, and the automatic reaction is 'you are gender critical, I will not engage further with you' without actually looking at what I wrote.

I would worry about this. There has to be trust and working relationships between schools and parents and the policy must enforce that.

You accusing me of not having insight. Honestly the irony. You’ve been told, plainly, at least once before - and I suspect that other times as well - that your lectures on this subject as both unwelcome and borderline offensive to the people on the group chat. And yet still you persist - as you have on this thread - banging on and on About it. You failed completely to read those social cues. And now you are hurt and surprised at what has happened.

a friends group chat is not mn which is some sort of echo chamber on this subject.

This, 100%.

According to Cass, social transitioning is not a neutral act.

Children can identify however they wish, but it's an adult's role to say, 'I'm really pleased you're exploring your personality, and I will continue to work with other adults to centre your best interests'.

I work with vulnerable (autistic) children, and they need stable, clear messaging from adults around this issue, because gender dysphoria is an expression/presentation of their autism. 20 years ago I worked with a young girl who presented as a boy, and even then it was understood that this child was autistic and needed a high level of support (had a statement of special needs, now EHCP).

There are no easy answers, but very clear boundaries and a high level of therapeutic support are the best model for supporting autistic children with distress around gender (and eating/other issues associated with autism).

I imagine this group of friends that have left the Op to her whatsapp ramblings will be wondering why the heck they didn’t do it long before now.

If you have any resources or book that you'd recommend me to read, I would be very grateful. I think you hit the nail there on the nuance of the topic.

I had eating disorder growing up as a child, didn't receive any therapy, but lots of support from my parents even through I was ungrateful for it at the time. My country did not have the same level society of support as the UK. I grew out of it eventually when I was around 23.

Two of my friends actually thanked me for bringing this up and reminding them to read their school policies.

So they haven't disowned you? They're still talking to you?

If only the other children felt that way. Secondary school is place of bullying and for some torture who have to endure the bullying for being different. Anyway there is always CHAMS to pick up those mental health pieces. Poor mum had no idea of the extent of the bullying their child has gone through.

you grew out of your eating disorder

ok

dare i ask, what is your point?

Teachers are overwhelmed they leave the children to get on with it. The unfortunate thing is the school will only listen to a child when the parent is involved. Try processing that for a moment.

Well she might not have grown out of it if her school had been encouraging her to believe that she was fat and supporting her to skip lunch every day.

So you are mad that they have their own views and you haven't managed to force your views on them

she didn’t “grow out of it”

she recovered

Recovered then. The point is still the same.