Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

[rouxelitee]

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

Did I say sex? I said gender fluidity specifically. Come on, as an academic you need to have better comprehension than this.

I was NOT debating whether trans as a category exists. Or about your friend to begin with. I am was objecting to the terms of your debate.

I was saying that

1. In the non West which is a LARGE PART OF THE WORLD traditionally many cultures have acknowledged gender fluidity. Including transgender people.
2. This is not a Western debate. Please stop saying it is one.
3. Whether trans people are a scientific category or not is separate from non Western societies acknowledging fluidity.
4. I am suggesting that you need to stop weaponising the non West in your argument.
5. I am not interested in your argument about genitals or chromosomes or gametes.

Your wilful misunderstanding of my point I think is testament to why your friend found arguing with you impossible.

I have heard many credible well delivered nuanced gender critical arguments that I have time and space for. Yours is genuinely not one of them.

Please define gender.

I absolutely refuse to do anything demanded of me.

And bully for you that you have gay neighbours but plenty of people both Western and non Western around the world are homophobic including towards their gay children.

They don't want to talk about a subject they care about. Fair enough. So much drama! Just dont talk about a subject that's going to cause conflict between you

"If a child from a very conservative background identifies as trans, there is a safeguarding discussion to be had about whether they are at risk of being harmed by their parents if their parents are made aware of it. But this will not apply to most parents who just want to protect their children from harm."

I actually agree with this, like I have said there are well-debated, well reviewed safeguarding guidelines in place.

But if you had look at my first post, the school policy is a blanket policy, that the school will not tell parents if the children confide in school that they are gender confused, regardless how the family is.

This is a breach of trust between parents and schools.

This ⬆️

You sound super fun, chilled and laid back and I'm really surprised they don't want to be friends with you any more. I would invite you to all my lectures parties.

at the risk of me scaring away all your friends!

This is what the DofEs non-statutory guidance says:

"The Cass Review is clear that social transition is not a neutral act, and that better information is needed about the outcomes for children who undertake degrees of social transition. This means that schools and colleges should take a cautious approach and that decisions should never be taken in haste or without the involvement of parents."

Schools often have very limited information on vulnerable students. My children are amongst the most vulnerable and their schools only have the most basic information. Plus, you would be surprised how poor teachers' knowledge and understanding of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and trauma is. They are not mental health professionals. So how could any school decide on something so fundamental without the parents' knowledge, involvement and consent? That is the opposite of safeguarding.

I wonder about the legal side of this. I would certainly consider suing a school if they socially transitioned one of my children without my knowledge.

I would agree with this.

The question has always been, at what point should the state take control of parenting of a child.

and I agree with Cass Review quoted on that matter.

I didn’t say the parenting was unfit, inadequate or abnormal. And the bond I mention was in reference to a post by the OP. Of course there are many things a child wouldn’t want to talk to their parent about. We’ve all been kids. But there are also many things a child should feel safe talking to their parent about. You’re taking my opinion here (notice how I started with ‘I think’ not ‘I know’) and going down a rabbit hole. And with that, I’m taking a leaf out of the responsible-sounding doctor’s book and bowing out of this discussion.

I think it would be more pertinent to question why a child doesn’t feel safe enough to talk to their parents before/rather than their school. If they are choosing to tell school over family, then the bond you mention is already in question.

Many children would say they feel 'unsafe' ie ., their newly acquired perception of themselves is likely to be challenged by their parents. That is threatening. Of course it's far easier to be affirmed by other non-primary caregivers with passive authority.

Yes, and like you I totally disagree with that as a blanket policy.

But I don't agree that the same arguments can be made regarding sexuality.

Assuming that the child is not at risk of being harmed by their parents, the default assumption should be that parents should be told if the child is identifying as transgender. I don't think the same is true of a child who comes out as gay at school. There is no reason why parents need to be told about that if the child is not ready to discuss it with them.

Yeah I actually haven't thought about it on sexuality - hence I have no view. I can see your point, at the moment I would love to know if my child is gay so that I can support her. My sister is gay and she talks to me about it when we were teenager, not my mum. If my child happens to be the only child I have, I want to provide her with some support.

Children have a right to privacy.

😆
too true

Good listener too, and so respectful of different perspectives!

and listens to her friends requests and completely respects them.

and not at all racist (“the Muslims”)

You knew that their views didn't align with yours and yet you continued the conversation. You have to accept that, within that group, your view wasn't just in the minority - it was offending people. And while they don't have the right to be unoffended, they don't have to be your friend either.

If you wanted friends, you should have picked your way through the social situation with more grace and bit your tongue to keep the peace. If you wanted a soapbox, X is right there. If you wanted people to agree with you, the GC board is here.

Converting the school mums by WhatsApp ain't it.

I don't think this approach is helpful. This is a very devisive issue. Part of the problem is that instead of debating the issue, people start with personal insults. That will get us nowhere and neither serves children with gender dysphoria nor the women and children who want their rights to be protected.

This is why they walked away from you, OP.

Your views are fine.

The way you will not listen to other people's, isn't. And when that person has more knowledge about how other countries negotiate this subject, it's not great.

I'd imagine most of us do not have every strongly held belief in common with our friends. And that's fine. But no one wants to be lectured on the group chat.

I take issue with your arrogation of the bland phrase “women and children who want their rights protected” @onlytherain as though thst means GC beliefs. I am a woman, and I have two children, and I would actively want to have all our rights protected by having my children taught by teachers who would respect their autonomy and curiosity.

I don’t need to have my authority as a parent bolstered by a teacher ratting some child out. Or if I did its not as a woman but as an authoritarian.

So you are entitled to drone in about your opinions on a friends group chat, but they are not allowed to disagree?

I bet they are sick to the back teeth of you shoe horning this issue into every conversation, no matter how inappropriate. I haven’t got headspace for that either in a friends WhatsApp group. Give it a rest.

And, I’d suggest, spend time online in places other than mn.