Could this be why 'men hate us'?

[Floatyoatcake]

When I was young I was in denial about the fact that men hate women (not all men ofc) but now in my 50s I've come to the firm conclusion that a lot of men hate women.

I also know that most men I've been in relationships with over the last 40 years have started off proclaiming that they have a high sex drive and that sex is important to them etc. However ime men's sex drive is often about novelty, power and control, and not always about intimate sex explored in a relationship. Almost all relationships I've been in, after a while the man has stopped being so bothered about sex, although still keen on the relationship. In the vast majority of relationships I've had, after a year or two, I've been the more sexually driven, while they've often been content to be a bit more of a passenger. I think this fear, of women actually having higher sex drives than men is the reason they hate us. It's fundamental to their beings, that they see themselves as the ones with high sex drives and loathe the thought it might not be true.

Men hold themselves up to be these highly sexually driven creatures and yet the lived experience of myself and friends is otherwise. I guess we don't always know how strong women's sex drives are due to being contstrained by the fear of male violence, but I wonder if men are scared of being exposed as only moderately sexually driven, which is what sits behind their hatred of women.

What do you think - is it a possibility?

I think it's for having sex with them at all

@ChangedmyMindNotUsingMyRealName Oh interesting - why would having sex with them make them hate us? Is it that we then become gatekeepers of sex?

Because they base us on their mothers and they think we should be more perfect than them and not let them "debase" us

I think there is a lot in the mother thing as mentioned by pp. They grow up with so many of their basic needs being met by a woman. I'm sure that has an impact.

With regard to sex, I think men know that when women do have amazing sex our pleasure is often greater then theirs. I expect that is part of their hatred and fear.

Really interesting points that I hadn't thought of. Definitely agree that sex can be more enjoyable for women, I guess that would be a source of envy/fear/hatred. That might feed into the fear of female sex drive that I was on about before.

I hadn't properly thought about the mother stuff either. The 'debasing ' us is such a vile train of thought, it's probably right!

I think it's a self esteem issue. Women are socialised to be subservient, to put men first, to be less than. Our real selves are actually much more powerful, competent and self sufficient ( probably due to all the training to serve others) which is threatening to some men. To keep their ego intact, they need to put down women, often because they would like us to be inferior which we aren't.

Based on how much misogyny and homophobia towards gay men seem to overlap in my experience I think the poster who has said it’s because we ‘let’ men have sex with us is onto something.

Also the insult ‘suck my dick’ adds some weight to that argument.

I’m 40 so beginning to be “invisible” and I 💯 agree with this.
basically every woman I can think of who is in a relationship is more competent than her male partner

People often make the mistake of thinking that misogyny only involves men, it doesn't, women are just as involved in upholding the patriarchy and can be just as misogynist.

Society hates women, we are the bin within which all of society's ills are poured. Women can't do anything right. It's played out in language for example, sun - male, strong, rational. Moon - woman, mysterious, irrational, lunacy.

Regarding sexuality it's quite complex. Men's egos are often tied up with their virility. They're patted on the back for sowing their wild oats, whereas women are sl*ts. Women who enjoy sex are dirty and men don't respect them.

It's the age old Christian virgin/whore dynamic. Men want to marry the nice girl and nice girls don't like sex. You see it on here all the time.

If you want to see how men feel about women, look at porn, it's like the collective unconscious. Women are punished in porn; spat on, pounded, choked, slapped, thrown around, their hair is pulled and they are degraded.

I actually think men didn’t used to hate us - they just viewed us as inferior.

We went from being “owned” to having some freedom but still being dependent on a man - to none of the above very quickly.

Now a lot of women expect to be treated equally and can freely exist without being dependent on a man for food or a roof over their head.

Men hate this as they know we don’t need them anymore and at a societal level haven’t been able to adjust for it.

Yikes. What the fuck kind of men have you been dating?

@Spudthespanner I think this is referring to men as a class rather than as individuals.

Right... sounds fucking nuts to me.

So much of these comments are about mens egos; either us being more competent or having the ability to be independent and not put up with poor treatment.

All life is created by women. Every human ever born was created by women.
It's magic, and a superpower.

Men are both terrified of women's strength & capabilities, & jealous of our capacity to create life.

They feel inadequate in the face of all women can do. But men are stronger and can physically intimidate women. So that is what they do.

(NAM yada yada)

I don’t it’s even that complex. Men are at the top of the power chain and power corrupts. They have the physical power to suppress and abuse and hurt us if they like. Same with children and animals. The testosterone gives them to drive to do it so it’s only a thin veneer of the combination of civilised society, law, moral conscience and empathy that stops them from behaving like the Taliban.

It's not that complicated IMO. Men hate women because other men hate women. They learn it from the time they are little boys, as men and other boys all around them are expressing contempt for women and girls, more in deed than even in word, and the hateful shit they say is bad enough. They learn to see it as part and parcel of manhood. They take it on board and don't even think about it. Some men (the "civilized" ones) convince themselves they don't hate us. Others know they do and are proud of it.

1000% agree with this. When I was a teenager a man at the shop I worked in said in my hearing that he couldn't understand why a man would ever let another man fuck him "because you might as well let a dog, then, mightn't you?" I thought, Jesus, does he think that about women?

Life is created by men and women. If there were no women there would be no life, but if there were no men there would be no life. I'm pretty certain men don't hate me, aren't terrified or jealous of me, or women in general. As I get a bit older, I think men simply couldn't care less about women (as they get a bit older also). And my experience in the workplace suggests men don't think women are stronger or more competent. Are these ideas based on your real experiences?

I agree so much.
I have a high sex drive.
Men don't really want sex they want to feel powerful.
And/or it's a way to express emotion because they have limited ways to do that due to how they are raised.
So basically many of them feel loved via sex.
Literally no men who I have enthusiastically met the sexual appetite of have actually liked that. In fact they have become extremely jealous and controlling and acted like they almost hate me. Because I think they are low key disgusted by their own ex drive.. and having their wants met makes them think of you as a disgusting whore.
It's really sad actually because I started off life thinking sex was an expression of fun and joy. A mutually enjoyable experience you could have with someone.
And as I got older I got so battered down by the darkness of male sexuality.
Men don't just want to have sex. That isn't what they want at all.
As someone with a high sex drive who wasn't always particularly romantic, I'd take it at face value when men might say 'want to fuck?'
I learnt my lesson pretty fast. They aren't interested in you having an enjoyable experience. They hate you abd they do not respect you and they want it to mean that you don't respect yourself.. and if it seems like you do still respect yourself despite having casual sex with them then the hatred and anger increase.

I'm happily married now but my husband definitely has a lower sex drive than me. Has had fewer partners than me. Thinks of sex as an expression of trust and love. As a communication of intimacy.
But I still can't talk to him about it openly. He still carries a wierd slightly ashamed reserve regarding it.
I've never in my life met a man who was just straight forward sexually and able to have a straightforward conversation about sex.
They've all been either hypersexual and kinda getting off on talking about it in a way that isn't quite consensual, if you are just trying to talk about an issue.
Or they've been very reluctant to ever discuss it as though it's something they hate thinking about or putting in to words.

I think it's so wierd how men think about sex. In a way that not only harms women but seems to harm and alienate themselves too.

@Ambienteamber absolutely this!
What preceded my initial post was a frustrating conversation that i tried to initiate with my partner about sex. He claims to be open and broad minded with a high sex drive. And yet that's not my lived experience with him. It's almost impossible to have a straightforward conversation about sex with him. He resists or diverts my attempts to talk which suggest to me that he doesn't want to face that he isn't how he purports to be. Him maintaining the image of himself as a virile, slightly dominant sex partner, trumps my need to have a conversation about my lived reality with him.

I think your comment about men saying 'want to fuck' then not liking the outcome of you maintaining your self respect, could actually be them saying 'want to be fucked' or 'want to get fucked' and then feeling angry or disappointed with your resulting intact self respect. They've failed to fuck you over.

Really interesting how they harm and alienate themselves I presume that's based around fears to do with their own sexual performance.

This is how you speak of and think about your partner?

I think you shouldn't be together.

Thanks for your opinion, but you miss the point sadly.