Could this be why 'men hate us'?

[Floatyoatcake]

When I was young I was in denial about the fact that men hate women (not all men ofc) but now in my 50s I've come to the firm conclusion that a lot of men hate women.

I also know that most men I've been in relationships with over the last 40 years have started off proclaiming that they have a high sex drive and that sex is important to them etc. However ime men's sex drive is often about novelty, power and control, and not always about intimate sex explored in a relationship. Almost all relationships I've been in, after a while the man has stopped being so bothered about sex, although still keen on the relationship. In the vast majority of relationships I've had, after a year or two, I've been the more sexually driven, while they've often been content to be a bit more of a passenger. I think this fear, of women actually having higher sex drives than men is the reason they hate us. It's fundamental to their beings, that they see themselves as the ones with high sex drives and loathe the thought it might not be true.

Men hold themselves up to be these highly sexually driven creatures and yet the lived experience of myself and friends is otherwise. I guess we don't always know how strong women's sex drives are due to being contstrained by the fear of male violence, but I wonder if men are scared of being exposed as only moderately sexually driven, which is what sits behind their hatred of women.

What do you think - is it a possibility?

Re-read your post.

You hold this man in contempt for whatever reason. I love my husband and would never think of him in the ways you have written.

You say I "sadly" don't understand. It's you I feel sad for. It sounds like you are in a fucked up relationship.

Super thanks. You're completely wrong but never mind.

I think you've nailed it. This!

If you genuinely care about discussion then elaborate please on these points from your post:

It's almost impossible to have a straightforward conversation about sex with him.

He resists or diverts my attempts to talk

Why would you be in a relationship with someone like this?

They've failed to fuck you over.

You think your husband's feelings around sea are anger that he has "failed to fuck you over"

Can you explain to me why this is a healthy relationship between two people in love? Why do you want this for yourself if he really is the way you say he is.

Why do men hate us? Because we don't obey. No matter what underlying reasons, it's predominantly about control and lacking the ability to enforce womens wants and needs toq be secondary to their own.

@Spudthespanner

You've misread my post and the 3rd point you make is not about my relationship.

Human find some things difficult to discuss and address. Apologies if you're not aware of this.

What have I misread? I quoted directly. You say it's almost impossible to have straightforward conversations about sex with him. That he intentionally tries to resist conversations and divert you when you're trying to talk to him about your concerns. That's not the basis for a healthy relationship.

Of course some conversations are difficult but I wouldn't be in a relationship with a man who tried to avoid talking to me about something I was upset or concerned about, or simply tried to shut me down. You say in your post that he does this basically because of his own ego. Your first thought when having a difficult conversation with your partner is to use it to bolster the idea that men hate women, rather than thinking you are both human beings with different points of view, but because you love each other you can work through it together. If I am ever upset about something, I come at it from the point of view that my husband only ever wants to best for me and loves me. Not that he's engaging in self-serving deceitful behaviour to get what he wants.

Sounds shit for you.

And if the 3rd point isn't about your relationship, it certainly is what you think about men and it's framing what you think about your partner.

You don't seem at all interested in addressing what I'm saying or having a discussion. If you think I'm wrong, explain to me why. Is this thread only for people who share your view that men are women hating bastards who aren't interested in healthy, loving, intimate relationships?

It's really difficult to have a meaningful discussion when you jump to so many incorrect assumptions then frame them as facts.

I'm in a happy loving relationship where I notice subtleties and nuances whereby my partner is reluctant to discuss some issues. I also notice how I've been treated by men as a whole over my 50+ years.

My views are not as you depict but you're so hasty to presume things about me, based on your own life experience, you say, that without derailing the interesting (to me and hopefully others) discussion it's impossible to refute your every guess.

Sounds like you're resisting and diverting my attempts to talk to you.

Might be a clue as to why you're having such a hard time discussing anything with your partner.

Since this discussion is only interesting apparently if everyone agrees with you, I'll leave you to it. I hope you can get over your emotional baggage about men and move forward with your partner.

I think they know they need us more than we need them. Women and other women can be very strong, men and other men just want to fight eachother.
We can go without dick-sex. There's plenty of synthetic alternatives far more efficient.
They can't go without women, or the idea they can have sex with women.
The fact is, they hate they need to seek consent to do anything to us.

I think some men hate women because they perceive life to be easier for women. In their eyes, being able to sleep with women is such an important status symbol that it's deeply unfair that women don't have to chase men and men have to do all the hard work asking women out, paying for dates etc. And then to add insult to injury, women complain that they are the sex that is discriminated towards the most.

I don't think men are jealous of our ability to create life. They generally see physical value in very one dimensional terms i.e. being physically strong is a virtue and it's a virtue women don't have. Other forms of physical strength- being more likely to survive famines, having better heart health etc - don't even register as strengths in their brains. Women are simply physically inferior because we can lift less stuff and it's as simple as that for most of them. Of course, women can be valued for their sexual attractiveness but, as above, we are also resented for that.

This is the crux of it.

Back in the day, any man could 'have' a women, no matter how much of a shit bag he was, because women were dependent and couldn't leave.

Men HATE the fact that women can no longer be owned in this way.

I've personally theorised that this comes down to early human cultures trying to make sense of and reacting to our differing biology.

Biologically, women suffer so much more than men - periods, pregnancy, childbirth. I think there is an element of the human psyche that has to rationalise that women deserve it.

I think then there is also the issue that men are essentially far more reproductively redundant than women. If you sterilised 99% of males a community could still survive, not so if the other way around. So their biological function is to accompany and assist us in our reproductive potential, and they get rewarded for that by being chosen to inseminate us, putting it bluntly. I think there is something deep there about this male need to "provide", or "be strong" in ways that women supposedly can't. One way to bolster that psychologically is to construct a narrative in which women are more dependant, less capable.

Then there is the psychological impact of men having greater strength - an inherent ability to physically dominate most women. If you can, you will, or at least, you might. The ability to dominate us physically in and of itself will lead to the proclivity to do so. The individual proclivity at scale, leads to a societal proclivity to dominate and subjugate women.

Men I believe are biologically fuelled to be more aggressive and risk taking by their testosterone. Lots of evidence backs this up as a generalisation. And it doesn't seem to be entirely a socialisation effect but something quite universal across cultures.

There is also evidence that boys mature at a slightly slower rate than girls, due to the influence of testosterone on the nervous system. Maybe there is an inferiority complex bourne out of being slightly behind same age female peers throughout childhood.

Psychology aside, we are mammals. Look at the behaviour of other mammals. We're more societally complex but still share an ancient history wherein physical and sexual aggression was frequently a successful reproductive strategy.

I don't think that all men hate women but I think there is a tendency toward women's oppression that needs to be and can be overcome by society and parents if we are to reach humanity's potential.

I don't actually agree with your sex drive theory. I think it's more fundamental than that.

What a bizarre thread. I am part of a community of men and women who all like and even love each other (in some cases romantic/sexual). I think there are a lot of wild ideas being thrown about here in an attempt to justify that men don't like them personally ("men don't like me because all men hate all women"). If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, OP?

I actually don’t recognise this is any of my life experience.
And I absolutely do not think men hate women because they are jealous women can give birth? Some of these comments are totally nuts.

Men also apparently resent women for their sexual attractiveness. Well I must say, I was once sexually attractive, and I never noticed this!!!

@TemuSpecialBuy What's this about being invisible at 40? Myself and my friends, my mum and her friends have all said the same thing, we feel more visible than ever.

I'm definitely more visible at 40 - I'm twice as big as I used to be 😂

I don't know if it's entirely about hating women. The type of man who hates women, I think a lot of them hate everyone.

That type of man are just as likely to hate weak men, low status men, gay men, immigrant men. Anyone they believe is lesser than them.

Oh they hate their superiors too, their bosses, the "elite", the government. But it's a lot simpler to punch down than punch up, so that's where they direct their anger.

And the easiest group to torment are the women in their lives. Their wife, their daughter. A captive audience who can't fight back. Sons get an easier ride because the angry man knows that one day they'll be bigger and stronger than them, and might be in the mood for revenge.

We don't do as we are told. We have financial autonomy. We are better educated because we listened at school/college.

Men like to be doing physical things. Modern life doesn't suit them as well.

They all want to marry virgins (no comparisons)

So many different reasons why modern society really isn't great for them.

@HoppyFish yes no problem. I'm mid 50s, in a mainly happy relationship with a man, have 3 adult sons that I'm close to, close male friends, colleagues, exes. Generally I don't feel invisible at all, I'm fairly popular with men and still get attention from men as I'm going about my day.

However, I've been raped as a teenager, had loads of sexual harassment and discrimination in work and on the street, been sent unsolicited dick pics, felt very unsafe at times due to the threat of male violence.

But I don't think this is about us as individuals its more men and women as classes. It's the domestic violence and murders, the Andrew Tates of this world, incels, sex trafficking, abundance of violent porn, use of sex workers, inability of girls to access education in places etc etc. It's that not that I feel overlooked or unseen or disliked because I don't.

I've thought for a good while now that (some) men are frightened of women. Why else would they try to silence women ( Taliban literally, other men figuratively) Dictate what we do with our bodies (America, literally, other countries figuratively)?

What exactly it is they are frightened about, I have no clue. But the older I get, and I'm very old, the more I see fear in (some) men's actions, rather than hate🤔.

This is similar to my theory, we can do the one thing they can't, create a human life and their input into that is minimal.
Because of that we will always be more important to the continuation of the human race and they hate it

@user1471453601 Really interesting, thank you. Completely agree with you that it could be fear. But I also think that fear can fuel hate. As emotions they can, I think, look really similar.

@HoppyFish 😂
I've definitely found my look, confidence, voice as I've got older. I feel like a proper adult now and everyone talks to me.