Is there a problem with Islam?

[LeafBud7]

My answer to this has always been, no, even if there are problematic elements within Islam especially for women, you can say the same about any culture or ideology, or religion.
I have been reading and thinking more about this recently, and i'm going round in circles. My brother in law is Muslim, and I am going to ask him what he thinks when I next get the chance for a proper chat, also a female colleague who I think would be open to talking about this..
In the meantime, what do you think? Is it as I have always thought, above, or is there something potentially within the religion what makes it more problematic, or is it not the religion itself, but more how things evolve in some communities? Is it all just a imaginary "problem" used by racists to whip up a storm?
One thing is for sure, it seems one is not really allowed to ask these questions in some circles, without being accused of being racist, which I find really unhelpful.

What was she saying about islam?
I find her quite impressive though I hear a lot of people calling her too right wing. (Conservative duh!)

She didn't mention Islam she just made the point that people who come to Britain need to adopt British values. She also said she doesn't believe in cultural relativism and that some cultures ARE more valid than others. She specifically singled out cultures that accept child marriage and deny women rights.

She can say those things because unlike many cowardly politicians she took on trans ideology.

Link here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn4y7vl0xl0t?post=asset%3A2f05bdb6-6dd1-4d1f-bd8c-35d5e361c9c1#post

I see. I have a lot of respect for her.

She's not wrong about importing cultural conflicts. There are enough societal divisions without adding more. Who benefits in the divide and conquer scenario?

@SquirrelSoShiny

cultures that accept child marriage and deny women rights

Cultures like the USA?

If American expats bring it to the UK, yes.

Kemi is in the UK, talking about divisions in the UK. Anyway, back to the thread topic.....

The hypocrisy would almost be funny if it wasn't so infuriating.

I don't have a lot of respect for her because she's trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Many immigrants come into the UK which have conflicting customs but the only one she mentioned was Islam.

The lowest common denominator?

Dog whistle politics.

I would prefer a description rather than a soundbite. I've listened to kemi speak, I am not a dog and as a scientist my understanding of lowest common denominator is mathematical.

She speaks to some of my concerns but obviously not yours.

If you put the name of the person you're trying to communicate with in the post, they'll see it's directed at them.

If you agree with Badenoch, there's not much to say. In my opinion she's trying to stir up culture wars. She's trying to appeal to Brexit voters, Reform voters and racists who don't like foreigners especially Muslims.

It's dog whistle politics as we all know her agenda.

And yet you knew by context I was replying to you.

I'm getting notifications that people are adding to the thread so I checked and made that assumption. But if a few people had posted after you, I probably wouldn't have seen your post. So if you @ the person you're talking to or 'quote' them, it makes life easier.

Sorry, but I think it’s such a debate terminating technique to claim that anyone raising any concerns about immigration and integration is just “trying to stir up culture wars“.
Interestingly, Germany‘s agricultural minister Cem Özdemir (Green Party, second generation immigrant himself) was accused of doing exactly that after claiming his own daughter had been sexually harassed by male migrants.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/28/german-politician-claims-his-daughter-was-sexually-harassed/

Those issues exist and need to be discussed, whether or not that might appeal to Brexit voters.

Out of all the cultures Badenoch could have chosen, that don't have Western values, why did she single out Islam?

She didn't mention Islam in the link I shared.

Clearly Badenoch has an agenda ( to be Tory party leader). If you’re talking about the danger some young, mostly single unaccompanied males from Islamic countries have been shown to pose to women when they arrive in the west ( viz the New Year’s Eve party rapes in cologne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany but there have been plenty more, though not on that scale) I think she has a point. As inamaria says, closing down the conversation by saying the person is racist or has an agenda, isn’t good enough and as this tactic has been used for so long now it is really stoking resentment . The left needs to engage with the fact that some attitudes which are a fact of life elsewhere are not acceptable in European societies.

On Sky News’s Sunday Morning With Trevor Phillips she said:

“We cannot be naive and assume immigrants will automatically abandon ancestral ethnic hostilities at the border, or that all cultures are equally valid. They are not. I am struck, for example, by the number of recent immigrants to the UK who hate Israel. That sentiment has no place here. We must recognise that the world has changed...But there are some, those who buy into Islamist ideology, political Islam, they do not like Israel and we need to be able to distinguish between the two."

I didn't see that one but it sounds like a completely fair and sensible point?

I understand we don't always LIKE what someone is saying about something we identify with BUT that doesn't mean the point itself is unfair.

I also think shutting down legitimate discussion to protect people from 'offence' is the highway to hell i.e. Brexit, extreme right wing politics etc. When people are fearful of change we need to have open conversation and allow people to have a say on what is happening in their own communities.

I'm not trying to shut down legitimate discussion. I'm saying that her views are an example of dog whistle politics. She's trying to appeal to Reform voters and jump on the current anti Islam zeitgeist.

There are many cultures we let into this country in enormous numbers that she could have chosen to discuss, she just happened to settle on Islam.

Standing against Israel's current stance is a legitimate view and we have freedom of speech in the UK, which the last time I heard was a Western value.

I agree, it should be ok to criticise Israel, especially the current government. In some circles it has gone a lot further than that though eg calling for removal of all Jews from Israel.

@username101010 is also anti-Israel so will of course welcome more people who think like her. That's the context for her perspective on this.

Well its gone even further than that in terms of openly celebrating the slaughter on October 7th, openly supporting Hamas, denying the overwhelming evidence of the deliberate torture and sexual assault of civilians on October 7th and the the inhumanity of tearing down the posters of hostages. Just openly anti-Semitic dehumanisation of Jewish people.

I'm capable of speaking for myself. I am a big believer in freedom of speech and for people to be able to express their views.

I don't know about an anti-islam zeitgeist, more a concern that the UK is being divided along religious lines and a concern that all discussion is intolerable blasphemy.
There are cultural practices such as fgm, honour killing, forced marriage, under age marriage and race/sex inequality that bother me, not confined to the Muslim community.
There has been trouble with hate preachers online and in life stirring up disaffected individuals, especially young ones with more passion than perspective, they have used Islam to justify their actions.