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Feminism: chat

Gender Neutral Toilets

174 replies

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 10:25

I have arrived at work this morning to discover that one of my work colleagues has decided to change all the loos to gender neutral loos.

I don't want this to be a debate about whether people can change sex. But I would like some ideas on how I can word an email to say that I don't agree with this decision.

To give a bit more context, I work in a building that is used by the public and the toilets that are being changed are the ones that the public use.

I've name changed so I can't be linked to my work. MN can verify that I've been around for yonks.

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IAmAnAdultHumanFemale · 30/06/2024 10:27

Change them back if course.

RhymesWithOrange · 30/06/2024 10:35

If you are in the UK HSE guidance is your friend:

www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace-facilities/health-safety.htm

Other questions to ask (depending on the nature and size of your company) are about risk assessments, equality impact assessments, safeguarding (mainly applicable to children and young people but also vulnerable adults) and employee consultation.

Did this person make a unilateral decision? Seems strange if so.

RhymesWithOrange · 30/06/2024 10:37

Sorry, just seen that these are loos for public use. So workplace guidance maybe not be appropriate. Are the public users customers?

Darker · 30/06/2024 10:42

I very much doubt that ‘one of your colleagues’ just decided to do this. There would have been a process including an assessment.

What would be a better arrangement for people who are trans and feel uncomfortable using gendered toilets?

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 10:54

RhymesWithOrange · 30/06/2024 10:37

Sorry, just seen that these are loos for public use. So workplace guidance maybe not be appropriate. Are the public users customers?

Yes these are public toilets. The staff can use them too.

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BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 10:55

Darker · 30/06/2024 10:42

I very much doubt that ‘one of your colleagues’ just decided to do this. There would have been a process including an assessment.

What would be a better arrangement for people who are trans and feel uncomfortable using gendered toilets?

There are accessible loos available if someone didn't to go into a designated one.

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jannier · 30/06/2024 11:09

Do a random work colleague has just made new signs and put them up/removed gender signs without management input?

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 11:17

jannier · 30/06/2024 11:09

Do a random work colleague has just made new signs and put them up/removed gender signs without management input?

That is how it seems. I was off on leave for two weeks and came back to an email saying, the toilets are gender neutral, and there are now signs on them.
I don't know if there was a meeting whilst i was off that had manager input.

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Chariothorses · 30/06/2024 11:20

The government announced to halt the rise in gender neutral/ mixed sex toilets. News link here
https://news.sky.com/story/clampdown-on-gender-neutral-toilets-planned-by-the-government-12939016

I found this summary on another w ebsite :'A recent toilet government consultation, which garnered 17,000 responses, highlighted several issues.

Women, the elderly, and disabled individuals expressed concerns about being disadvantaged by these facilities. They cited increased waiting times, reduced privacy, and diminished dignity as significant drawbacks.'

Maybe ask to see the Equality Impact assessment?

Clampdown on gender-neutral toilets planned by the government

Regulations will mean single-sex toilets become the default and minimum for new non-residential buildings and those undertaking major refurbishment.

https://news.sky.com/story/clampdown-on-gender-neutral-toilets-planned-by-the-government-12939016

Chariothorses · 30/06/2024 11:20

or if a rogue individual did it, change it back and /or complain to manager/ HR?

Opentooffers · 30/06/2024 11:37

Solves a problem?

GrumpyPanda · 30/06/2024 11:40

Does this involve the gender neutral with urinals/gender neutral without urinals baloney?

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 11:42

GrumpyPanda · 30/06/2024 11:40

Does this involve the gender neutral with urinals/gender neutral without urinals baloney?

All toilets including ones with urinals are now neutral.

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Darker · 30/06/2024 12:02

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 10:55

There are accessible loos available if someone didn't to go into a designated one.

Accessible loos are for people with disabilities. Being transgender isn’t a disability.

BobbyBiscuits · 30/06/2024 12:06

How can a toilet with urinals be neutral?! There's men getting their dicks out next to eachother FFS! And the fucking smell...
When I think of unisex toilets I think of single rooms, each with a toilet, and sink, totally enclosed and lockable. Also usually they should be disabled friendly as well.
If it's urinals, or banks of toilets separated by flimsy walls then I can't accept that set up for both sexes together.

InfoSecInTheCity · 30/06/2024 12:22

Ask if there was a consultation and to see the Equality Impact assessment that was conducted. This should assess whether the change would be likely to introduce new risks in relation to each of the 9 protected characteristics and how those risks will be reduced.

Eg

age - The absence of single-sex toilets in buildings where space precludes provision may be discriminatory to older and younger people. This relates to the absence of ‘familiar’ single-sex facilities which older people have been conditioned to expect and younger people trained to seek out in public toilet facilities.

disability - This may result in increased demand pressure on accessible toilets and increasing waiting times for disabled people. The increased competition for use of an accessible toilet may result in a negative reaction from other people. It should be noted that some accessible toilets may be secured with a device such as a Radar key, preventing use by non-disabled people.

religion or belief The absence of single-sex toilets may be discriminatory to people with some religions or beliefs

www.inclusiveemployers.co.uk/blog/equality-impact-assessments-a-definitive-guide/

Presumably if inclusiveness is the goal they will have ensured that inclusivity factored in the needs and risks to all groups not just a specific group.

IncompleteSenten · 30/06/2024 12:24

First thing to do is find out if your colleague had the authority to do this.
Then take it from there.

mitogoshi · 30/06/2024 12:28

Gender neutral toilets have to be full height doors with sinks contained in the cubicle, nothing wrong with them in smaller places but that doesn't sound like what you have. Urinals cannot be in a gender neutral bathroom!

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 14:01

mitogoshi · 30/06/2024 12:28

Gender neutral toilets have to be full height doors with sinks contained in the cubicle, nothing wrong with them in smaller places but that doesn't sound like what you have. Urinals cannot be in a gender neutral bathroom!

Please can you tell me where I can find this information to share with HR?

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BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 14:02

InfoSecInTheCity · 30/06/2024 12:22

Ask if there was a consultation and to see the Equality Impact assessment that was conducted. This should assess whether the change would be likely to introduce new risks in relation to each of the 9 protected characteristics and how those risks will be reduced.

Eg

age - The absence of single-sex toilets in buildings where space precludes provision may be discriminatory to older and younger people. This relates to the absence of ‘familiar’ single-sex facilities which older people have been conditioned to expect and younger people trained to seek out in public toilet facilities.

disability - This may result in increased demand pressure on accessible toilets and increasing waiting times for disabled people. The increased competition for use of an accessible toilet may result in a negative reaction from other people. It should be noted that some accessible toilets may be secured with a device such as a Radar key, preventing use by non-disabled people.

religion or belief The absence of single-sex toilets may be discriminatory to people with some religions or beliefs

www.inclusiveemployers.co.uk/blog/equality-impact-assessments-a-definitive-guide/

Presumably if inclusiveness is the goal they will have ensured that inclusivity factored in the needs and risks to all groups not just a specific group.

Thank you, this is really informative.

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TheCoolOliveBalonz · 30/06/2024 14:36

In the first instance I would ask if an impact assessment was carried out and if so, could I have access to it. And I would ask which loos are provided for female only use now. I would await the reply to that. I have twice found questioning of this nature has the desired effect very quickly on this topic.

Marblessolveeverything · 30/06/2024 14:41

@BaffledPanda are there other toilets available, i.e. men/women's?

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 14:42

Marblessolveeverything · 30/06/2024 14:41

@BaffledPanda are there other toilets available, i.e. men/women's?

No, every toilet in the building now is designated gender neutral.

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Marblessolveeverything · 30/06/2024 14:43

Ok, I have heard of some organisations having three options to facilitate as many as possible.

BaffledPanda · 30/06/2024 14:43

TheCoolOliveBalonz · 30/06/2024 14:36

In the first instance I would ask if an impact assessment was carried out and if so, could I have access to it. And I would ask which loos are provided for female only use now. I would await the reply to that. I have twice found questioning of this nature has the desired effect very quickly on this topic.

Thank you, it is useful to know which terminology to use.

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