Gender Neutral Toilets

[BaffledPanda]

I have arrived at work this morning to discover that one of my work colleagues has decided to change all the loos to gender neutral loos.

I don't want this to be a debate about whether people can change sex. But I would like some ideas on how I can word an email to say that I don't agree with this decision.

To give a bit more context, I work in a building that is used by the public and the toilets that are being changed are the ones that the public use.

I've name changed so I can't be linked to my work. MN can verify that I've been around for yonks.

Agreed.

You are kind of good at it.

Not sure if this will help. I work in a school which has gender neutral toilets.
We have male student toilets, female student toilets and gender neutral student toilets. Trans learners are not allowed to use the male/female toilets unless the correspond with their biological sex. This is to safeguard all students

Cisgender is a legitimate term for people who are not transgender. Cis derives from the Latin ‘on this side of’, while trans derives from the Latin ‘on the other side of’ or ‘beyond’.

It’s just a word.

Many words are "just" words yet cause offence or, as in this case, are simply inaccurate - people who don't believe they have an innate gender identity can't be cis or trans.

Do you find the word ‘trans’ offensive?

And why are you trying to police other people’s language? You know what it means.

If you believe people don’t have an innate gender identity then that’s your prerogative.

Well said. This ideology works by removing rights. The hard won rights of women to maintain single sex spaces. The universal rights of children to be protected from age inappropriate issues. The rights of the young to be protected from dodgy medicine, to be protected from dodgy adults using them as a shield to divert from the grim reality of their own niche demands.

Insisting that women have no right to privacy from men who are sad leads right into the insistence that girls also have no rights to protection. And the vulnerable group under this ideological umbrella are all the girls and young women - many lesbians - and the (mainly gay) young men who've believed what's been sold to them - that their bodies are flawed and they need to "change sex".
They're the vulnerable group. They're the ones who need all our concern, care and attention as they try to navigate the terrible harm that's happened to them.

Everyone has a sex. They might not like it but they do.

And no one is under any obligation to participate in anyone's identity. It's not the fault of women that iltge whole thing doesn't work unless others are forced against their will to be validation tools.

We shouldn't need " gender neutral" toilets. Why can't we expect trans people to uphold basic decency akd use the space corresponding with their sex. This whole.low bar behaviour expectation thing is the real bigotry

Do you really think the majority should not speak up for minorities?

This thread is wild…

Speaking up is one thing. No one wishes harm on any one.

But forcing people to participate is another. No one else is expected to do that with anything else. That's beyond reasonable.

Well you do have to participate if you are going to genuinely support people more vulnerable than oneself.

I'm fine with single sex toilets. But I recognise that they are not really suitable for everyone and can cause real distress. There is still a great deal of legitimate debate on what the answer is, but I’m not fine with any argument that sets transgender people’s needs to one side. That’s not being inclusive.

Course we don't have to partipate

I dont have to go to church to appease Christians and catholics. I don't have to pretend to be sick so those who are don't feel so bad. I don't have to give up alcohol because others struggle with addiction. I dont have to walk around with a bowling ball strapped to my body so pregnant women can share the pain.

And I don't have to play along tat a male.person is a woman and belongs in places they really don't . If a dog can understand thr word no then a grown adult male sure as hell can.

I think it’s clear where you stand on this.

No it’s not a “legitimate” term. The word “woman” is enough.

First of all “cisgender “ confuses sex (biological, immutable) with gender - a set of culturally and historically constructed stereotypes and roles, which have mostly been used to oppress women.

Secondly, “cis woman” suggests that a woman is happy with those oppressive stereotypes which is very offensive.

Woman is enough. You can use “transwoman” to refer to a man who thinks he’s a woman. But real women don’t need any qualifying term.

Woman is enough.

Being kind doesn't mean doing and saying what someone else wants all the times. Sometimes the truth and/or a boundary Is the kindest thing even when it's not what they want to hear.

If I said I believed I could fly id hope someone would tell me the truth that I.realky can't befire I.got to.the roof of a multi storey.

Shouting at the pavement for being a bigot for not affurming me as ny brain matter spreads all over it from.my smashed up skull isn't gonna help is it.

So because the 1 percent trans within the population might feel uncomfortable instead they make most women uncomfortable. 🤷

Madness.

They are not allowed like this though. I've had to use gender neutral toilets where you had to come out of the cubicle to wash your hands. Not nice if you get blood on them.

Indeed.

And given how transwomen tend to be at the forefront of trying to break down women and girls’ boundaries over this sort of thing, we really have to safeguard the majority.

Ask the boss when they will be paying for additional sanitary bins for the men's loo.
And ask if you're supposed to monitor it in case a little girl goes in after a man who might have his dick out at the urinal.

You can use the term about yourself if you wish, you can even believe the term applies to other women if you wish. But that's all it is, a belief.

My gym has gender neutral toilets. The kind that are floor to ceiling enclosures with the sink in with you, much like in your house.
Men still piss over the seat and floor.

It usually works that the badly treated have to organize, find allies and fight for their rights.

The badly treated are frequently the majority who badly treated by cruel, selfish minorities.

Just look at how long it took impoverished, humiliated majorities in our empire to get out from under us, the powerful cruel minority.

Look how long it took the worker majority in the West to get any decency in their lives from the minority merchant class.

Look how long it has taken women to get any equality (and still it remains a maybe).

Look how long it took majority of uneducated, non land owning men get any equality with the minority ruling class of men.

On the other hand, the group you claim to be the most vunerable managed, in a few short decades, to change the scientific foundation of sex groups, get almost every government in the West to alter their entire system to accommodate them under pain of arrest, unemployment and even prison for non compliance.

Nothing about that suggests vulnerability to me.

Nothing about that suggests vulnerability to me

Imagine the laugh these males are having. Men oppressed women fir years. They turn round put on a dress and everyone buys that somehow a privileged middle class male in a dress is amongst the most oppressed on the planet.

It's almost funny if it wasn't so highly disturbing that people genuinely believe that some six foot bloke with a beard and a tutu is more vulnerable than a disabled little girl who couldn't defend herself or run away.

Evidence for this please?

Every trans woman (and trans man for that matter) I’ve known or worked with has been lovely and not remotely interested in harming cis-women or taking away their rights. They just want to live their lives in safety as most of us do.