Surrogacy - man plans to abuse the baby he is buying

[DifficultBloodyWoman]

Two gay men are the ‘commissioning parents’, also know as the baby buyers.
One man has been arrested for distributing child porn.
The other is a church pastor.

According to the article, the pedophile wrote, ‘I do love the idea of inviting a buddy over when I have my boy … just has to be someone I can trust obviously … I plan on getting my c* in him asap…’.

Horrifyingly, his parents-in-law, the parents of the church pastor, wrote glowing character references for him. ‘There should be more men like him in the world’.

And the kicker…the baby is being born in California where laws state the baby is the child of those two men unless they voluntarily relinquish parental responsibility.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13241501/chicago-veterinarian-dog-judge-charged-child-porn-sexually-assault.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/chicago-veterinarian-child-porn-court/

"As someone considering surrogacy I definitely don’t believe it’s exploitative or immoral"

@Avios it would be very uncomfortable I am sure to believe it is exploitative or immoral if you are considering it.

It is the purchase of child. Do you genuinely believe that that is not immoral?

My compassion is with the surrogate mother right now. To carry a baby, to bond with a baby, and have to give him to a man who said he’d be willing to have his husband home and “monitor the internet” at his bond hearing. I don’t know what I would do. I’d flee or go into hiding.

She’s probably already had to give him up.

They dont have to be wealthy. I think in the right places, you can buy a baby for 10k or thereabouts.
There was an Irish? Couple who were trying to buy/eventually bought a baby and did nothing but complain about how much it all cost. I dont remember the details.

It absolutely is exploitative. And immoral. And human trafficking.

I am childless due to infertility. I understand the grief of being unable to have your own natal child.

Paying a 3rd party (or not as the case is in the UK) to take all the risk without the gain of keeping their own baby is appalling.

Liars, abusers and exploiters do so in all walks of life. Doesn't matter whether you had your own pregnancy or someone else did it.

My heart goes out to people struggling with fertility. But no one is entitled to a child.

I have religious opposition to surrogacy. But setting that aside, how can anyone support anything other than inter-familial non-paid altruistic surrogacy in this environment? Even “unpaid” surrogates are given forms of financial renumeration.

Show me a world in which a preponderance of the women volunteering to be surrogates aren’t desperate and disenfranchised, and we can discuss the morality. There’s a reason most surrogates aren’t university educated women with professional careers. We just don’t want to say it aloud often.

But I will.

We have become comfortable exploiting poor women and their bodies to achieve our own ends. No matter how we dress it up.

Surrogacy is quite frankly evil. You can't take puppies off their mum until their a certain age but it's ok to do that to a baby?

It doesn't matter what genes a baby has, that baby's mother is the woman who carried baby in her belly, the heartbeat it knows. That baby wants it's mother.

It is quite simply an industry of buying humans. Nothing more. We can't buy organs but we can buy babies? what the fuck.

It needs to end. We need to centre children in society, not adults. I understand it must be incredibly difficult for a woman who cannot have children of her own, but it doesn't give her the right to buy a human and cause harm to both mother and child.

Surrogacy is wrong. Call me old fashioned but I think newborns need their mums. And it’s becoming so normalised. Predators love this liberal approval of babies as currency. The only natural consequence is that rich peadophiles will be quids in.

THIS ^^

Surely any pregnancy is focused on the adults’ needs? People have children because THEY want children. Worse still are the pregnancies where the babies aren’t wanted or they’re happening in spite of the mother or father or the home is abusive. You need only compare the numbers of children being removed from ‘normal pregnancy’ homes to that where they’re removed from surrogacy homes to see where the problem needs to be addressed.

I don’t believe it’s immoral which is understandable because morals are subjective. I believe religion is a made up patriarchal structure to give people hope that there’s something bigger than them.

i believe in science, transplants, living transplants, I believe in medicine intervening with nature when humans abilities fail (eg taking chemo when we get cancer etc). All of these things have a risk of exploitation but I believe in humans’ abilities to rule societies to protect against them.

All of these things have a risk of exploitation but I believe in humans’ abilities to rule societies to protect against them.

Even while posting on a thread about a man who is talking about buying a baby to abuse?

@Avios hoe would we ever knownthe figures which tell us how many children are removed from the home of their surrogate parents? How can we quantify the percentage when the process is hidden from plain view across the world?

Social services aren't engaged with surrogates families in the same way as adoptive or foster families despite the issues being very similar for the children being passed between homes.

Religion is irrelevant to the morals of most people these days. I still believe paying a woman to sacrifice her body and to risk death or disability for your personal desires is immoral. These women are heavily exploited.

Even the women who truly believe they are doing it for nice reasons are being exploited and unfortunately many have found that out the hard way.

There is much evidence of babies being rejected at birth because they are disabled, of the mother being badly injured during birth and having no recourse to assist her in life, Covid preventing international travel and babies being abandoned by the people who paid for them, surrogate mothers suffering long term mental health issues as a result of the trauma they have experienced....

It's a terrible thing to do to the babies and their mothers.

Religion isn’t irrelevant to me and I think the fact that you dismiss it as “wanting to be part of something bigger” is part and parcel of the reason we have found ourselves here.

We are not pieces of meat and the woman you seek to birth a baby for you is not an easy bake oven. We are human beings with souls and needs that can’t be measured by science.

You will justify what you want to do in many ways. At the end of the day, you will still be buying a child that was formed by another woman. That woman, if she had any other choice and we were in a more equitable society, would not be doing this for you. I think you know that.

@Avios You don't think its immoral to deliberately create a baby in order to remove them from their mother? From the only security they know? Deliberately sever their first bond when we know how important bonds are in the very early years? Its nothing to do with religion, we don't need religion to be moral people and try to limit the harm we cause in our lives, especially harm to children.

i believe in science, transplants, living transplants, I believe in medicine intervening with nature when humans abilities fail (eg taking chemo when we get cancer etc). All of these things have a risk of exploitation but I believe in humans’ abilities to rule societies to protect against them.

how does society make decisions about what is exploitation and what is not? - Morals. Religion is just a moral framework by which societies organise themselves.

It can be very easily argued it is immoral to exploit vulnerable women for their birthing capacity, and to cause a young infant trauma by splitting it up from it's mother, and to trade it like a capitalist commodity.

Yes some biological parents are terrible, but that doesn't mean that buying babies and making an industry out of women's reproduction is ok.

What makes more logical sense then, is that the women who want babies but cannot, adopt those babies that are sadly born into problematic families.

Not buy a baby.

The world 100% needs more mothers - there are many children who could do with a loving supportive family.

The world absolutely does not need more traumatised babies born.

Surely any pregnancy is focused on the adults’ needs? People have children because THEY want children

People have children by accident, or because they want to. The moment you have the child it is your duty to put their needs first.

Simply considering buying someone else's baby and taking it off it's mother to fulfill your own need is alarm bells you are not able to prioritise the child over your own needs.

What would you do if the baby comes out of the baby-factory as a 'defected product'? What if the baby has severe disabilites which require huge amounts of care, time, energy, resources? Will the buyers reject the faulty product? will they request a refund? Maybe a part payment? They should check the terms and conditions....

Babies / Humans are NOT a product with a price.

They would need to look at fostering and/or adoption.
Surrogacy makes me uncomfortable the more I find out about it, especially how it is essentially a paid for, almost catalogue like, service in places like the US.

We have seen what happens in these scenarios. In many cases, the couple demands the surrogate have an abortion. In some, they refuse to parent the child and put him or her up for adoption. They simply refuse to collect their “product”.

Pregnancy is not without a cost as well. Prolapse, c-sections, and other issues are not uncommon.

But “child buyers” like the one arguing here simply refuse to see the downsides. They are blinded by their desperation.

It took a long time for my husband and I to conceive. We never considered surrogacy. We looked into adoption and began the process of accepting we may never be parents. Our response wasn’t to buy someone else’s body and pain to get what we wanted. Not with the cost to others and with so many out there needing homes.

This is utterly disgusting and so upsetting. I wish I hadn’t, but I Googled the couple @Bumblebeeinatree mentioned and I am lost for words.

I go back and forth as to whether having access to the internet has made society better or worse, and I have to say even the thought of how easy it must be for these sick bastards to share abuse online is enough for me to think we should shut the whole thing down!

That's fucking disgusting, he should get the death sentence.

It’s not just the baby you have to consider. Pregnancy can leave the surrogate disabled and can even kill her. Not that the people using the surrogates care.

Its usually poor women who do surrogacy because they think it’s easy money, not realising it can leave you debilitated

Simply put, we as a society do not care about poor women. We let them be exploited via sex work, pornography, and now surrogacy.

And for everyone who wants to use a surrogate because they are childless or suffering, change your lens. Instead of being “what about my wants and needs”, think about the woman and infant involved. Think about them and their wants and needs.

I thought this was in California which does have surrogacy laws and regulations? including screenings?

In this case, there was one protective parent to be as well.
The Pedophile they caught is reported saying his unknowing partner was not a “perv” and they would have been a parent to the baby via the surrogacy arrangement.

Are you saying that the now ex of the pedophile should still get the baby to raise? As they are a protective parent?
https://www.waldlaw.net/faqs/surrogacy-law-faq/

Adoption isn’t really child focussed. If the intended adoptive parents want a newborn white/Black/Asian baby boy/girl, that is what they get. If it were child focussed, then we wouldn’t have all these older children being rejected for newborns.