The devaluation of motherhood

[alwayslemons]

Please excuse me if this post is a little rambling. I’ve been thinking about it a lot but it’s hard to articulate!

I’ve noticed in recent years that it’s become kind of uncool, socially, to have or want children - and certainly to be a SAHM. Almost every young (under 30) woman I’ve spoken to about it has seemed almost proud of the “Children? Gross! I’d rather have a dog” attitude. Openly sneering when they see a child in public like there’s no greater irritant. After one of my friends had a baby, some others (all women) were talking in a fairly unpleasant way about how she no longer had anything interesting to say and it was like she was just a “baby machine”. Someone I work with was talking about her sister and said “she’s the breeder in the family” because she has children. They’re all on board with the “feminism is about choice” thing, yet curiously contemptuous of any woman who chooses motherhood over a career.

I recently saw an Instagram post from a feminist account about how child free women still need a good work/life balance so the “oh it’s easy for you because you don’t have children” attitude from coworkers is unfair. Which I agree with, but oh my god the comments… honestly, some of them were vile. Calling mothers entitled etc, it was pretty horrible. (Also, sorry, but you considering your dog to be your baby is not the same thing as actually having a baby… I adore dogs, but come on)

Like obviously if you don’t want kids then that’s fine, and nobody should ever be judged for that. But it seems to be swinging pretty far the other way. I’ve noticed it in newspaper articles and on social media, as well as in real life, and honestly I find it kind of upsetting. Both motherhood and being a full time SAHM are things that have been undervalued and taken for granted for the longest time - how in the world is this feminism? It seems more of the same “I’m not like the other girls” nonsense.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me??

Soz for the rambles but I had to get it out, it was really bothering me today!!

Agreed. It's hard to put my finger on it, but I have had this feeling too since becoming a mother late in life. Particularly the mother of a disabled child.

I can make sparky comments at times and recognise that some of it is about being defensive.

I feel like people don't consider me worthwhile because I'm not having children.

Sometimes it felt like the world was set up to expect you to have children and people can be really patronising. There were lots of 'I didn't know what love, hard work,tiredness etc was until I became a mum". I can specifically remember a time where I was caring for my very unwell mother where independently people told me that finally I knew what it was like to have children, could I imagine doing that then going home to my kids?

Even this week me and my partner were put in the single bed room on a family holiday because there's a weird heirachy if you don't have kids.

In the eyes of my family nothing I could do, masters achieved, houses bought etc will compare to my sibling who gave them grandchildren. I sit ignored at some family gatherings while people talk about primary schools etc.

It's become much better now I'm in a different office with more people without children but my family will remain the same

It's easy then to put yourself in the anti kids camp when the world feels very kids or no kids

Personal opinion but I feel feminists have played a cruel trick convincing women to prioritise chasing a career above all else when being a mother is in my opinion one of the most amazing things a person can do. To actually create life and get the chance to nurture it is an amazing privilege.

And is your username an accurate reflection of your sex?

I'm unsure of the relevance but yes?

I'm very clear this is a personal opinion, if it differs from yours that cool.

Cool.

@Laidbackguy I keep hearing this but what do you think about the fact that so many men walk away from their partners and children and then women are made to earn money as well as run a home and bring up their children by themselves?

And if all women did stay at home with loving partners, what would happen without women in the workplace? No women doctors, teachers, office workers, policewomen and so on. Should women become quiet and docile?

I agree there are scummy men who have multiple children with multiple women and fail to fulfil their obligations. I don't know what the stats are on this or where you'd find them.

But if we look at mature relationships and marriages its overwhelmingly women who end these. Data from the ONS and various phycology based research bodies show that across the western world rates are fairly similar. Around 75% of relationships are ended by women, if you look only at women with degrees that jumps to closer 90%. Men don't typically leave adult relationships.

Why women are leaving is a bigger question, maybe all men are scumbags? maybe the sexes want different things? I don't know.

I always tend to take absent fathers with a pinch of salt having seen both sides of the fence as there are normally 2 sides to the story.

I agree with other posters that motherhood and its negative effects on autonomy, personal space, mental health, finances etc is much more visible due to the Internet. It looks like it could be the end of you!

@Laidbackguy In my experience, women put up with a helluva a lot to keep their families together. Hardly any women want to be single mothers by a choice. It's a massive struggle emotionally, practically and financially.
They leave because they feel that's the only choice left to them as their partner is unsupportive and often a scumbag.

Maybe the lesson here is for men to step up and be good husbands/partners and fathers.

I had no experience of divorce until my ex wife (who I'd spent most of my adult life with) announced out of the blue (to me) she was out. I'd been a good provider, supported her in her career, active dad, caring partner, never strayed.At no point did she say "you're doing X" or "please don't do Y". I was absolutely destroyed as being a dad / husband was a massive thing for me.

Over the past couple of years I've spoken to a lot of guys in a similar position, if my ex had actually spoken to me I'd ben happy to work on things. By the time she broke cover she was already checked out, had closed herself off and there was no reconciliation.

Men need to be good partners but so do women and they need to actually talk to guys.

Men don't leave long term relationships because they typically get screwed in terms of access to kids and financial settlements. Society and the system very much favours women in these situations.

@Laidbackguy it's interesting you say that because that's often when women leave. There's usually that final straw.
It would be interesting to hear what your ex wife would say about this as women don't often leave good supportive partners if there are young children involved.
I'm sure it does happen sometimes but two sides to every story, as they say.

If we take a rational stance that there are roughly the same number of poor male partners as female ones.

How do we account for 75-90% of divorces being initiated by women?

I think women are increasingly realising how much motherhood damages and disadvantages them. There’s more knowledge about how common birth injuries are, and the lack of NHS support to fix them afterwards. Women are less willing to step back from their careers, even temporarily, because they’re realising the long term impacts of doing that. Employers and the government aren’t supporting women to catch up after they’ve had time off.

Also I think the fantasy of equality has died a death. When I was younger we all thought we could have equal relationships where the father shares childcare and we both get an opportunity to work. But employers still aren’t offering flexible jobs that allow for nursery and school pickups, and professional roles are virtually all advertised as full-time with no part-time options.

In most cases there isn’t the option for both parents to step back and share the load, because jobs that allow that sort of stepping back (especially for men) are very rare. What happens is one parent (dad) has a full-time job with no flexibility, and the other parent (mum) can’t get a decent job because she’s not available to work 9-5 five days a week.

I wouldn’t say motherhood is devalued. I just think women are increasingly realising it’s a shitty deal for them and they’re saying NO.

I agree with this 100%

The "equality" didn't hold up well to scrutiny / facts as soon as it started being treated as the multivariant problem it always was.

Actually I read an interesting piece on this not so long ago.

Apparently when women realise that a relationship is over and they want to leave, they tend to simply end it and move on. Men statistically tend to stay in a relationship, even when they’re unhappy, until they find another woman with whom they can move on with.

They don’t want to bite the bullet and be single, whereas women would rather struggle and be single than be in an unhappy relationship. This might account for the statistic you mentioned.

when I thought about it anecdotally, I realised I recognised that pattern. Of the couples I’ve known where the man has left, it has always been for another woman.

Men don't stay in relationships through apathy, it's for fear of losing all access to their kids and most of what they've worked for due to a seriously biased family court system.

Women end 75-90% of marriages as society supports them in doing so and its typically quite profitable.

Profitable? Did I read that right? So when a woman has to give up a career to care for the man’s children and lose her earning power that’s profitable?

Profitable 😂😂😂

no

I haven't noticed that per se but lot of women are rejecting having children which is a perfectly valid choice imo

I dont see any sneering towards sahms. I ont actually know any that are though because theey cant afford to live on a one income family

If men were routinely walking away from failed relationships with 70% of the combined assets and the woman paying them £100's a month in spousal maintenance there would be uproar.

It’s not just about failed relationships though is it? It’s about men taking responsibility for their children. And the impact that their children have on the woman, her income and her current and future earning capacity.

You're doing the old assigning a multivariant problem to a univariant cause thing as seems so common in feminism.

And you’re doing the common misogynistic thing of lumping all female thought under one umbrella of feminism.