We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

[MentholLoad]

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Bollindger they are literally miles ahead in the polls - what on earth makes you think they’re blown it?!?!

Yes very much hoping for ANYONE but labour. So if that’s conservative then so be it.

Ha yes

Yup, the other Milliband, that was the sliding doors moment.

uh-hu, can't argue with that.

I quite often ignore the 'leader' though and vote for the manifesto/ideology/policies, because the leaders change. however, I can see that can be a problem too, when you would end up with BJ in particular, is a good example (not that I vote for Conservatives, but I imagine they were all horrified at BJ being PM?)

Labour under Starmer -
No to an electoral pact with Libdems to help defeat Tories
No to cooperation with SNP
No to publicly owned water
No to ~~~~~~~~~~ rail
No to PR - so far at least

Yes to coalition with Scottish Tories
Yes to 'easing transition'
Labour is going to win though and win big. That's how crap the Tories are I suppose.

@Purplefriends youll be voting Tory because they’re going to protect women?! 🙄

Ok then.

^^ This.

Alternatively to your viewpoint, OP, if Labour are worried about losing women’s votes, why don’t they listen to women and change their policies? It wouldn’t be hard. They could actually come out with some sensible statements that most women would like, even of it offends the university students and the men in dresses.

If you’re worried we’re going to end up with another Tory government, perhaps you should lobby Labour politicians with your concerns, rather than trying to emotionally blackmail women on here for their votes? If Labour are pursuing wrongheaded policies that will lose them women’s support, despite having been told this again and again, one can only conclude that they are doing it deliberately.

What was that that Alex Sobel said? He didn’t want the votes of bigoted women who disagreed with him. Hard not to think that it’s rather deserved if they then don’t.

I certainly won't be voting Labour or Lib Dem. No matter what they say, I simply cannot trust them on immigration. Net immigration last year was 600,000. That's more than the population of Manchester. If you add in illegal immigrants/people who don't show up in the official figures, it's probably closer to a million. I don't know what it will be this year, but if it continues like this the south east will be uninhabitable by the 2030s. I'm in Essex and often feel like I'm suffocating. Developers are building horrible little brick boxes on every bit of available land, and the traffic is so bad I hardly go out. Anyone who lives in a city and thinks they're going to retire to a quiet little village, where they can 'enjoy peace and quiet,' is a deluded fool. By the time most of us retire, there won't BE any countryside – just one giant new build estate.

However incompetant the Tories may have been, Labour and the Lib Dems will be much worse. Behind the scenes, they will quietly remove obstacles, speed up asylum processing, make it easier for economic migrants and foreign students to stay, etc. Rachel Reeves has made it clear that they plan to build on the green belt.

I completely agree @RhymesWithOrange

How is net immigration last year Labour's fault? 🤣

But yes this is the stupidity we're up against.

I fully agree with you.

It’s not my hill to die on. You can still fight social inequality with a Labour government in place. The tories have stripped the right to protest amongst other numerous things, start with the issues that impact everyone rather then the few.

And as for the ' Well the Tories introduced self ID'.

All that happened there was that the Tories happened to be in power when the Stonewall Lobbyists were working to bring in self ID and the Tories fell for this as an easy progressive win. And then the Tories reversed when they realised it was not and was actually a shit storm most people did not agree with, and actually made very little sense.

If Labour had been in power at that time we absolutely would have self -ID by now. Whilst the Tories were rolling back the Labour party was forging ahead, calling us dinosaurs, KS saying women can have penises and its wrong to say only women have cervixes, Nandy was saying rapists should be in women's prisons. If you want to see what would have happened look at Scotland where Labour actually did vote in Self ID, including their leader; look at Wales where the ruling labour party are STILL explicit about wanting the power to bring in self ID. If the labour party had been in power the last 13 years, we would have self ID by now.

It has taken a high profile case of a rapist (and not the first I might add) in a women's prison and him being photo-ed with his cock bulge in tight leggings, and this happening just after the self ID bill was passed, and NS flailing around refusing to say he should not be there because he is a man and the attendant public outcry - for KS to FINALLY say that maybe now was not the right time for self-id as you need to take the public with you.

So absolutely we would have self ID if labour had been in power and good luck with reversing that if it had got in.

And as for the guidance to schools and the Tories not delivering on that - just look at the guidance in Wales if you want to look at the sort of guidance Labour would have produced if they had been in power. And that with all the power of the self -Id bill they would have passed too.

If you want to be a sex-realist, be a political realist too and at least be honest about where we would be now if Labour had been in power. Cos it would be a whole lot worse that the state we are in now.

This post makes no sense.

you're angry that net immigration was 600,000 last year so you're going to vote for...the party that oversaw this?

genuinely mindboggling

Labour and Cons will diverge on immigration

I’m with pp who said this will be a factor in next GE

I actually think this background of gender stuff doesn’t help either

Can anyone actually articulate what it is that they don't like about Starmer? Is it literally just the way he looks?! What is it that people have against him I'm genuinely intrigued? I've grilled someone on this before in my family and best they could say was he "looks a bit shifty". Erm helloooo Boris people? And anyway you do realise its not just a single person you vote for...it's a party and their policies. If the only reason to vote for a political party is on the leaders physical appearance or charisma then we are definitely in big trouble as a country!

I don't think that anyone in politics has actually said that a woman is a biological adult human female so their words so far are meaningless as they can be qualified in any way they like, depending on the circumstances.
I am not convinced it's the GC issue that will scupper the Labour party at the next election rather that the vast majority of self supporting people don't see why they should subsidise those who are not, any more than they already are, which always happens under Labour.

I think the number of people who actually think this is the most important issue right now must be utterly minuscule.

I'm centre right and tend to vote conservative, but they're useless at the moment. The country needs a change of leadership but I don't think I can bring myself to vote labour for a number of reasons including the gender issue.
I probably won't vote in the next general election.
I live in a labour safe seat anyway so literally won't make a difference.
I don't think that it'll be a landslide but highly likely that labour will still win with a small majority.

I have had many conversations with my Labour MP. They have a long history of working for women's rights and very much opposes self id and support single sex spaces, over the last 8 years or so. she has raised the issue in parliament on numerous occasions.

she also works on supporting refugees, drug and alcohol, Education etc

It's partly about where we are in the timeline of an election. Sunak is rooting for one next Autumn - if he gets that, then there is still a year to go.

Labour would be stark raving bonkers to be really putting any heat into trying to win voters this early. All it will do is allow the Tory party to see what is popular and they do/start it before the election to get the credit for it.

I have no idea if Labour will be any more appealing by next Autumn, but I think they'd be mad to be trying to be riding too high in the polls (part from as a fall out from how unpopular Tories are) this early in the game.

I am also not that convinced that anyone outside mn really puts too much weight on GC issues, tbh. I might be wrong, of course, but I never hear of it outside mn.

Agree. Although I've always been a lib dem.

If I thought labour really had some ideas and some skill behind them then maybe I could be swayed, but they don't. I agree with the PP, I don't think they actually want to win, and tbh the crazy relaxation of planning permission that they have just outlined supports that theory.

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

This doesn't mean anything any more. How is Starmer defining "female"?
If Labour win they have pledged to make it easier for TW to change their birth certificate to state that they are female. Plenty of TW define themselves as AHF so the word female already also means male in trans activist circles and if you don't think this new definition of female will be forced upon us all you are deluded.

Labour won't be getting my vote as they do nothing to support women's rights