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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

679 replies

MentholLoad · 09/10/2023 12:51

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
AdamRyan · 09/10/2023 14:19

Labour policy is not to allow self ID

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

The Conservatives may "know what a woman is" but its clear they want to use that knowledge to continue to exploit womens unpaid labour to prop up the economy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/02/families-should-have-more-children-to-care-for-ageing-uk-population-minister-says

I don't think posts on MN represent most voters. And I think there are a lot of politically motivated accounts here that aren't in good faith- like when Brexit happened. The Tories are trying to make this a wedge issue, but the reality is (as always) voters will vote much more prosaicly.

Keir Starmer says ‘a woman is an adult female’ on self-identification system

Labour leader’s comments come after party rows back plans to introduce self-ID system for transgender people

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

TheClitterati · 09/10/2023 14:20

Not whether or not someone in a bike race used to have a willy.
They will still have a willy - 90% of TW do keep their penis. that's kind of a big chunk of the point.

ResisterRex · 09/10/2023 14:21

TheClitterati here. It's a throwaway line, oddly! It would be quite the societal change so needs looking at:

amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/07/ex-wife-of-boris-johnson-to-help-labour-protect-women-from-bullying-at-work

MintJulia · 09/10/2023 14:23

I haven't decided who to vote for. I probably won't until the week before the election.

The issues that concern me are....
The NHS
The GC issue - 100 years of women's rights should be protected at all cost.
Food security & the environment - here I want to see much more from all parties. A free for all to build houses or solar on agricultural land will make me vote elsewhere. They are sleep walking into real problems.
Secondary & further education - increase budgets and give sensible alternatives to university.

At the moment I'm thinking Green. Maybe

megletthesecond · 09/10/2023 14:24

They'll get in again. But they don't like women either. I don't think any major party supports women.

TheClitterati · 09/10/2023 14:26

Labour would also seek to give women who live with their partners the same rights, including over property, as married women should their relationship end.

Wow and its being misrepresented by Guardian from the start

Labour would also seek to give PEOPLE who live with their partners the same rights, including over property, as married PEOPLE should their relationship end.

TheClitterati · 09/10/2023 14:27

Persoanlly I would have been hugely harmed with lifelong financial implications by such a law.

lifeturnsonadime · 09/10/2023 14:32

MintJulia · 09/10/2023 14:23

I haven't decided who to vote for. I probably won't until the week before the election.

The issues that concern me are....
The NHS
The GC issue - 100 years of women's rights should be protected at all cost.
Food security & the environment - here I want to see much more from all parties. A free for all to build houses or solar on agricultural land will make me vote elsewhere. They are sleep walking into real problems.
Secondary & further education - increase budgets and give sensible alternatives to university.

At the moment I'm thinking Green. Maybe

The Green Party are very much 'A women is whoever says they are one' and they don't want voters who think otherwise from what I can tell!

Very disappointing.

EasternStandard · 09/10/2023 14:34

We’ll see.

Maybe

Coyoacan · 09/10/2023 14:35

Binjob118 · 09/10/2023 12:55

Tory Tories or labour Tories? Not much choice tbf.

I haven't seen anything socialist or left-wing about Labour, am I missing something?

EasternStandard · 09/10/2023 14:36

Highandlows · 09/10/2023 13:45

Immigration would be the defining factor.

This is where I’d say it will be too

HermioneWeasley · 09/10/2023 14:38

I’m a floating voter

women’s rights are very important to me and I’m of the view that once lost, they are lost forever. I said on another thread a better funded/working NHS is no use to me or my elderly mum if we can’t access it because there aren’t women only wards. This is true of a lot of things and Labour have done nothing to reassure me that my existing rights are safe with them.

they also haven’t said how they will achieve anything. They are weak.

BristolBlueGlasses · 09/10/2023 14:39

Everywhere I look around me from hospitals to schools to roads to rivers I see the depressing, sharp decline that has happened during the last 13 Tory years.

I cannot picture how awful the decline that another 4 years of Tory government will be for us all.

This GC debacle has arisen during that time of Tory rule and we are in a worse muddle with it every month from what I can see. They are doing and have done nothing to resolve the issue for women during that time.

When I think that the last 13 years of Tory rule have done absolutely nothing to further the cause of women in this country I boggle that anyone would vote for them on a single issue topic that is womens' rights.

Their promises on all subjects from HS2 to the environment to surgery waiting times have been broken and so I have no faith at all that they will keep any promises they are making now.

If we get another Conservative government they will continue to serve their own and bugger the lot of us. Any woman who votes for them on GC issues alone is ignoring the wider issues being taken in by their lies.

vonryanstricycle · 09/10/2023 14:43

At least the Tories know what a woman is !

fedupandstuck · 09/10/2023 14:43

The issue is that the Labour Party are a weak, disorganised and unprincipled opposition. They have alienated plenty of women who don't believe in genderism, whilst also failing to be any kind of competent opposition. It should be piss easy for a decent politician to oppose this lot. To bring people together and consistently highlight the flaws in what the government has done, are doing and propose to do. Don't blame women for not wanting to vote for such a useless party.

Purplefoxes · 09/10/2023 14:43

MoulinPouge · 09/10/2023 13:11

The Tories are so stunningly incompetent I wouldn't vote for them even if I agreed with their ideologies.

I also don't get how you can be a single issue GC voter and vote for the party that brought in self-ID. Tories don't give a shit about women and won't do anything for women, because they don't give a shit about society in general. They hold the voting public in contempt. That is their defining ideology.

Edited

Agreed. Will always vote because suffragettes didn't die so I could not bother to vote as I didn't feel like it. If the Tories get in again, I'm sorry but the voting public must walk around with their eyes and ears closed!! I live in a constituency previously held by Nadine Dorries who frankly is a total embarrassment and doesn't even live vaguely near here. We've been canvassed to hell for the local elections. I even had Iain Duncan Smith, previous conservative party leader himself on my doorstep. It didn't go well. He started with "is your husband in'. Because as a woman holding a baby he obviously didn't think I was capable of discussing politics. I gave him short shrift. The best he could do was witter about protecting the green belt. The conservatives have used our country like their own personal piggy bank which they have raided until only a few pennies remain. Contracts for mates. Running down our services, trying to send us back to some sort of Victorian society. I want the NHS to still be standing and a service worth having for when I get old and need it, the only party in the past who has put the emphasis on services such as education and health is labour. Therefore I vote for them. We desperately desperately need change. I'm just concerned that people will vote liberal and the split vote between labour and liberal will mean the conservatives still get in...even with a teeny majority such is our system! I am going to consider moving abroad I think if conservatives get in as it's going to get so much worse. The conservatives have had 12 plus years to get it right, if they can't manage it in that time another 4 won't help.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/10/2023 14:44

The Tories put trans back into the Conversion Therapy ban. They're unable/unwilling to issue much needed guidance to schools.

They don't give a shit about women and children.

Coyoacan · 09/10/2023 14:45

ResisterRex · 09/10/2023 14:03

I don't think the next election is a foregone conclusion. So much could happen. And Labour aren't really offering much different. They won't change the benefits system. They've got a totally batshit idea about making teachers brush kids' teeth (will dentists come in and teach maths?). And they're left with fiddling round the edges stuff like the Sue Gray idea of having new departments to mark the work of other departments!! The fuck? Checking government is the job of select committees. Not unaccountable civil servants. How will that improve anything at all? It'll just cost money and keep information away from public view.

As I suspected. Sorry I am not in the UK but there is nothing about the Labour Party that suggests it will improve benefits or workers' rights, for example. For people abandon women's, you'd at least want some major improvements in other areas

Purplefriends · 09/10/2023 14:46

I really object to the way women's basic human rights are framed as a 'single issue' that we shouldn't be deciding our voting intentions on.

A party could be fucking brilliant on everything else but if they wanted to bring back slavery I would not be voting them. I would not care if that made me a 'single issue' voter.

Some 'single' issues are absolutely fundamental. Women's basic rights are fundamental. Understanding what a women is is fundamental to our rights. There is no foundation without that and everything else collapses without that, our services, our language, our sports, our safety, our rights.

I do think the Tories understand why GI is bollocks. Once they understood the issue, they were on board. Labour had a longer time to grasp GI but not only enthusiastically supported it, but insulted women (dinosaurs), wouldn't let them join the party, wouldn't let them have stalls at conference, and threw them under a bus (Rosie should not have said that!). The Tories never did any of that. KS has only pretended to know women are AHF as he didn't want this issue to be a distraction in the election. Two minutes ago he thought they had penises and it was wrong to say only women had cervixes. I'm right not to trust him and I don't.

The conservatives are also much better on free speech issues which is a stance needed to enable women to fight for their rights. As we have amply seen.

I'm a life long labour supporter but I won't vote for them and I will be voting Conservative.

Original poster
MentholLoad · 09/10/2023 14:50

ShellySarah · 09/10/2023 14:15

We have a democracy so if they get in that's what the majority wants. I'm not going to tantrum like a toddler over it.

I'll probably swear more than most toddler tbf 😁

OP posts:
Softnatural · 09/10/2023 14:51

I don't think the GC issue is anywhere near as big an issue for the the voting public as a whole as these boards would like to believe. Most people IME are still only vaguely aware of it and many still see inclusion as a good thing, without thinking about the impact on women's rights.

And despite the recent sound bite, still no one could ever possibly argue that this Coonservative has been a party of support for women over the last decade + Additionally, we've reached a place where the statement was needed entirely on their watch. It was them who got us to this place in the first place.

Scarily, I do think we could end up with another Tory government because the whole "it would be even worse under Labour" idea does seem very entrenched among the disenfranchised white working class, the Brexit voters who still think the Tories will sort out immigration, but it won't be GC that swings it IMO

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/10/2023 14:52

Two minutes ago, Sunak said a woman is whatever Boris Johnson says. Boris Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix.

Plus Sunak will be binned either before or just after the next GE, the country can't afford anymore of this Tory chaos and uncertainty.

UndercoverCop · 09/10/2023 14:53

I'm not a Tory voter, but I have absolutely no faith in Starmer.
I've said it before I'm sure I'll say it many times again, the downfall of modern Labour started when they chose the wrong Milliband

Bollindger · 09/10/2023 14:54

I am a Tory, I was so so so sure Labour were going to win until about a month ago.
OMG how the hell have Labour blown this?
I mean it was an open goal, with no players on the pitch. Do Labour even understand the assignment?

Purplefoxes · 09/10/2023 14:55

Oh and I think the trans issue is being used as a massive diversionary tactic by the conservatives. This is what they are best at. Find a divisive issue and use it against the other party, smoke and mirrors and subtafuge. Last time it was immigration (still is!) And this time they are going for the trans issues. The trans debate will go away on its own with legal challenges. It's already on its way out. People have woken up, it's ridiculous having trans women winning all the female competitions etc. Just as ridiculous to allow men with a penis and male sex hormones into female only spaces. This is NOT a reason to vote for the Tories. They don't give a stuff about women's rights, only remaining in power. And privatising the NHS. Screwing any more money that can be screwed out of our once great country and lining their own pockets before the next election. By which point I am willing to wager the NHS will be privatised and we will all have to afford private medical insurance it will cost circa £30K to have a baby like it does in the state's, so if you are not insured or don't have spare 30K you can't have one or you take your life and that of your unborn child in your hands. How is that for women's rights? You still want to vote Tory though?!