Russell Brand accused of rape, sexual assaults and abuse: The Times/Sunday Times story

[BrontëParsonage]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d4d93e74-5478-11ee-bc18-cbdd58145dc6?shareToken=b3cd34ae6268daad4741e6c092ceac97

not the way if I was a victim I would want it all to go

You don't know what you're talking about.

You're not them.

You're not in their situation.

You are not qualified to pontificate on what you imagine you might do if you were an entirely different person in a situation you have never experienced.

I have to admit the trial by media doesn't sit well but I see the huge challenges about getting a criminal prosecution.

I think after Kevin Spacey there is undoubtedly going to be at least a little bit of public doubt and I wonder how this will pan out? I wonder if we'll get a host of conspiracy theorists coming out to say there was a plot against him .

Will actually there be any celebs coming out to defend him? He is a big name with a lot of big name contacts ( married Katy Perry?)

I feel for the victims. But it isn't even the biggest news story this week, what with earthquakes and floods.

He is still going ahead with a gig tonight so I wonder how many will turn up?

Can he just sail through this claiming it is a media conspiracy?

I feel for the victims. But it isn't even the biggest news story this week, what with earthquakes and floods.

Why are there so many minimising posts like this on MN today?

Other bad news, other rapists existing etc does not negate how hideous this story is.

I think it's absolutely sickening he is trying to frame this as conspiracy against him - and that it seems very smart to have pivoted to pushing the content he has done over the last couple of years.

Just like Andrew Tate, he seems to have a devoted army who will decry any attacks against him, just so long as he continues pushing out conspiracy theory content and anything that goes against evidence-based views.

Earthquakes aren't preventable. They don't typically involve cover-ups and police apathy.

I think the epidemic of sexual assault which is effectively legal in the UK is a huge news story. Not because it's Brand, but because it's everywhere.

What is the legal status of anyone referring to victims rather than alleged victims at this stage? I guess RB will be in touch with some good lawyers at the moment.

There hasn't (yet) been any condemnation from the celeb circuit so it will be interesting to see if this is discussed by talk show hosts etc. or is there going to be an element of stay under the covers?

mids2019

https://x.com/beverleyturner/status/1702937915481858403?s=20

This thread is so depressing.

"Why didn't she report it"
"This is a trial by media"
"The police should investigate"
"The timing is interesting"
...

Women don't report rape due to sexist police departments, abysmal prosecution rates (just look at any of the recent footballers in the news) and then having to hear ignorance like this.

If you think women should go through "proper police channels", you're living in a fantasy land about how those actually operate.

The women in the article clearly said they felt they wouldn't be believed, they were afraid of going up against a much richer and more powerful man, or they were threatened with legal action.

Must admit when i first got whisper of this i assumed this was going to be about a much older "comedian" with the initials JD

And you only have to look at the utterly dreadful treatment of female victims of famous men to see how dreadful it can be. Hordes of fans hounding them and making their lives a misery. Forever linked with the rape in the media. Only ever famous for that one thing. It's horrifying. And the men can go on and make money and be famous for everything else.

That's even if you get a conviction. Which is vanishingly rare.

The biggest story here (though not surprising) is the fact it was an "open secret" that's what needs exposing, this is what we're seeing with This Morning, Me Too, policing, and the hospital story this week; it's the way systematic misogyny and the abuse of women is being accepted and covered up.

For that, I'm not worried about the trial by media aspect, from the article it looks incredibly well researched and backed up. Hopefully he will be taken to court, but the focus should be around why this continues to be condoned and covered up across all sectors.

Kirsty Gallagher seems to be backing her brother in law. I wonder if that is career black mar for her?

I am now thinking RB is going to have an Andrew Tate like following.

I am now thinking RB is going to have an Andrew Tate like following.

Yep.

Yes - and he already does tbh, they have the same views and same methods of gaining followers and clicks on their videos. Pushing conspiracy theories is a big business and a convenient cover when you're accused of doing something illegal ("They're out to get me because I got too close to the truth")

You can't think that Brand appreciated Andrew Tate tweeting "Welcome to the club" though!

While the things he has been accused of are awful , I still don't agree with trial by media, especially not by anonymous sources. Everybody accused of a crime has the right to a fair trial and to mount a defense. Just because the things they are accused of are horrible , it still isn't an excuse to remove someone's rights. It's a very slippery slope and the way the law stands People are entitled to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise by a court of law. I cannot support the circumvention of our judicial system and our laws, no matter how crap they may be.

Yes a new Andrew Tate. Lots of 'deep state trying to quiet him' type tweets at the moment. Instant backing from GB news.

I am worried he is going to not fall from grace

People are entitled to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise by a court of law. I cannot support the circumvention of our judicial system and our laws, no matter how crap they may be.

The problem with sexual offending is this. If you presume these men innocent until proven guilty, you are saying that 99% of the victims are lying. And although it's right and proper for juries to treat the accused as innocent until proven guilty, I think as women in the world we all know that the vast majority of men accused of sexual offending are, in fact, sexual offenders.

Who knows in this specific case? But when I hear hooves I think horses, not unicorns. If Dispatches is better at investigating abuse than the police, what world are we living in?

But where will it end will we allow everyone to be tried by the media for all kinds of crimes? Would you be OK with being accused of something with no chance of a defence and a fair hearing? We have a judicial system and process for a reason. It clearly needs reform but using media and judge and jury is not the way.

What's worst about it is that it isn't extraordinary, but that it's ordinary. Im not intending to get into a discussion about degrees of illegality vs other predatory men in this industry in particular. I just mean what's horrible is the way it is treated as unremarkable by the managers, producers, everyone making a living on the back of these men, all preferring to let it continue, letting scores, hundreds of less powerful women (and men too) go on being collateral damage, without a second glance, because they don't want to upset the gravy train.

And yes trial by media is not ideal, but it is apparently the route the victims were more comfortable with.

Agree with@klhfd , really.

If the alternative is that cases of systemic abuse and protection of perpertrators never see the light of day, I think there is a place for whistleblowers.

There are tons of historical cases that would have got nowhere if people had relied on the police to do their job - Rotherham, Saville etc

This is especially the case for sexual assault where powerful men are protected and victims are coerced into not reporting or taking it forward.

But where will it end will we allow everyone to be tried by the media for all kinds of crimes?

Where I'd like it to end is the Courts, police and politicians taking rape seriously. And if it takes the media to do that, so be it. Because with actual rapists in the police force, and men running the show in all those areas, nothing will change unless it has to change. That's the job of investigative journalism. To shine a light where there was none.

It is unacceptable that we are still shrugging at the lack of action. I'm livid. For myself, for my daughter, for all women. Reform won't happen because of wishing and hoping vaguely. The people who can reform the system either don't care, or actively benefit from it being the way it is. We have to make if worse for them not to reform.

Totally agree.