White Feminism

[Brefugee]

suggested from another thread, is this something we should talk about. At the risk of being accused of being a TAAT it isn't that.

But on another thread a black MNer said that at a conference she had experienced racist comments from a panel, and she was the only one who pointed it out. And had been the only black person in the room.

The reason i brought up White Feminism on that thread was that the poster was instantly dismissed as a potential derailing troll. Which is... well not sure if the person dismissing the poster is white or not, but it was pretty much the very same treatment. Immediately written off as insignificant.

I've seen comments on the FWR board before that White Feminism rears its ugly head a lot, and that black mumsnetters don't feel comfortable on the board.

I find that shocking. But I'm not black or of any other minority. I'm a white 2nd waver - and i hope that i don't make racist comments or dismiss black women's experiences. I do hope that if i did, they would point that out to me. (and I'd be sorry they have to do that work)

So - should we talk about this? I do think it causes rifts where we should have bridges.

I’m surprised FWR regulars were allegedly opposed to a Black Mumsnetters forum. That does not seem justifiable, or at all in tune with the (generally) left wing ish vibe of this board. Can you evidence this?

And once again, I've looked though the thread that PatricksRum posted and I couldn't see a single name from FWR I recognised and I've been here for years.

So unless you can provide some evidence, I'm going to call bullshit.

And I don't recognise your name either 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oxford Uni's diversity unit published a list of 'racial microaggressions' a few years ago that included not making eye contact (the thing @Sunnydata won't do)!

It was only withdrawn after they got a bollocking from (or possibly on behalf of) people on the autistic spectrum.

Sex and gender issues affect all women - and our differences pale in comparison.

I have to admit that I didn't even notice what board this was on... I was responding simply to the actual content of the OP and the follow up discussion. But I do feel a bit resentful that I'm not allowed to comment on "boards" if I don't agree with what you think is the right approach?

As for the comment above, sex and gender issues affect all issues, yes. But I completely disagree that our differences "pale in comparison". My experience, as a white, nonEnglish woman, are completely different than the experiences of a black American woman. This is true. This is fact. And I think it's completely disingenuous to say that women's issues should supersede or ignore this fact.

Oh, and I name change a LOT. So while I may or may not post that often, you wouldn't necessarily realise either way.

It's moved, still in Feminism but not on the sex and gender board which is fair enough.

But there are many, many more issues that unite us, regardless of race or social standing:

Sex pay gap
Maternity rights
Access to menstrual products and safe disposal facilities
Contraceptive rights

Menopause rights
Women's healthcare
Safe pregnancy and obstetric care
Safe toilet facilities
Safe public spaces
Equal access to education, career opportunities and advancement
Single sex spaces
Women only sports
Women only opportunities, competitions and prizes
MVAW

Off the top off my head.

They may impact different groups of women within a single country more heavily (am thinking of death in childbirth stats which disproportionately affect black women in the U.K. and US) but they affect all of us.

I'm sure I've forgotten things. We are united through being women.

You seem to have gone off on tangent there. I'm not denying that there are commonalities between women due to us all being female. I'm saying that white women equating their experience with racism is offensive because they don't experience it so wouldn't know and inaccurate because it's very different to sexism.

I don't suppose you can link to these?

Were they on Site Stuff, FWR or elsewhere? Give us a bit of a clue (presumably you were on them so they will be in your 'threads I'm on' list?)

I am going to guess here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4019891-dear-black-people-of-mumsnet?flipped=1&page=1

That's the thread I looked through. It's long so I didn't look through the whole thing and there are loads of horrible racist goady posts but not from anyone whose name I recognise

That was already posted, thanks - I was after these 'regular FWR posters opposed to a board on multiple threads' links.

"I normally make eye contact with most people I meet even strangers, but now I don’t do that as often as some find it threatening"

Making eye contact is part of human interaction.

You decided that you needed to start a thread rather than giving the poster time and the chance to give a first person account of her lived experience so " white saviour " mode is an ironic choice

🙄🙄🙄

It was to stop the derailment of another thread, as both are worth discussing

IIRC there were threads in Site Stuff, Chat and AIBU.

Here's a more recent thread where White Feminism took over. The worst posts were deleted.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4692725-why-southall-black-sisters-made-the-difficult-decision-not-to-attend-the-palaces-domestic-violence-event?page=1

Boots, if you are going to allege FWR posters are a bunch of bigots who repeatedly opposed a Black Mumsnetters board, you should be able to back this up. Let’s see the links please.

This board includes many non white posters I am pleased to say. I do not appreciate attempts to cause division between the feminists on this board. I wonder what your motivation is.

Now that ^ is a micro-agression.

Not bravely quoting and opening a discussion on how and/or why "white saviours" exist in white feminism

I missed this one. At least there were a few posters who said they were going to listen and not talk. That is often needed and white women do not give it.

Sometimes we need to STFU and listen.

Yeah I’d think you aren’t making direct eye contact with me because you perhaps have an anxiety problem. I prefer someone to look at me when speaking to me. It’s dismissive not to. I’m also ok with myself as a brown woman, I am what I am and I’m not ashamed so don’t expect any particular treatment except general politeness and civility which I think most people would like.

I personally feel comfortable on the GC feminism boards, individuals can have racists views sure but feminism is for every single woman, even the racist ones, or women I don’t like because of xyz.

I think the distinct experience of ethnic minority women should go hand in hand with conversations around womens rights because things like single sex spaces may have more urgency when women self exclude because of religious beliefs etc (I’m an atheist and I think most religions are crap for women but I also don’t want any woman extra disadvantaged because of her beliefs). Or if the conversation is around maternity care in the UK, the higher mortality rates for black women is of course extremely important to understand ina discussion about womens health based rights.

I don’t agree that race should be more of a priority to feminists right now, women are at an inflection point on our rights and if we start diluting the conversation around rights that specifically relate to biological sex we could start losing them, all of us who regardless of race/religion etc. It’s a simple message of there is only one type of women, the old fashioned cunty types and we are a distinct group which share biological features which have consequences for us in society.

I don’t feel at the moment that the issues I have as a brown woman are more of a priority than those I have as a woman full stop.

It's very telling that some posters are keen to move this thread to somewhere with much less traffic because it's not 'on topic', it was only two weeks ago Nigel Farage's banking generated a 30 page thread without one such comment.

And yet you still haven't provided a single example of FWR regulars opposing the black MNers board.

You are totally correct, but it's not so much as looking at race, as looking at how white feminists benefit from a system that oppresses other women.