Page 7 | What are the goals of feminism?

ThunderDad · 2023-04-05T19:23:54+00:00

I am interested to know what are the goals of feminism in 2023. I'm honestly curious as someone who doesn't know a whole lot about it.

Botw1 · 09/04/2023 17:23

@CantAskAnyoneElse

We're mammals. Of course its an urge

And yes it can be controlled. But men can also control their behaviour

It's ridiculous to suggest the only solution is not having kids

OutsideLookingOut · 09/04/2023 18:12

CantAskAnyoneElse · 09/04/2023 17:20

Granted, I’m antinatalist, so we’re not going to agree on that.

Urge or not (I don’t believe that’s a thing, more a sociatal pressure/ fear of being left alone) the person is still one in control.
I mean rapist say it was an urge, most of of us think that’s no excuse.

I’m all for rising standards, but vast majority won’t do that, and most men have no reason to start working on themselves.
There will always be a woman who will date/fuck/marry/have kids with men who are angry, lazy, watch porn/go to strip clubs, drink/smoke/do drugs, don’t have money, sexually coercive, don’t actually like women/ see them as fellow humans and so on.
Why would they change?
Just MN is filled with women who make excuses to the type of men I’ve listed…

Show quote history

I agree with you that it can be selfish as you do it because you want too even with a partner you know is unsuitable and without knowing your child will enjoy life.

If more women stopped having children for this reason would men step up? I somehow don’t think so. We’d just be guilted about the decreasing birth rate and selfishness blah blah blah

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 18:25

Granted, I’m antinatalist, so we’re not going to agree on that.

Watch if you actually achieved a tiny part of that how rape laws, marriage laws and abortion laws mean that men still get sex and children.

Generally the religious allow a very small number of women to be nuns or something where you can opt out. But very few and there's always another man along in a minute to raid the nunneries.

The only way you get to be child-free is because you live in a small part of the world, and a small period in history where that's possible.

OutsideLookingOut · 09/04/2023 18:41

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 18:25

Granted, I’m antinatalist, so we’re not going to agree on that.

Watch if you actually achieved a tiny part of that how rape laws, marriage laws and abortion laws mean that men still get sex and children.

Generally the religious allow a very small number of women to be nuns or something where you can opt out. But very few and there's always another man along in a minute to raid the nunneries.

The only way you get to be child-free is because you live in a small part of the world, and a small period in history where that's possible.

That sounds so sinister but I suspect it could be true.

and if it is true… why would you want to breed with men who think like that or when push comes to shove would do that? I am no antinatalist but I think I can understand why people would be. If women always had choice would we have society as it is now? If women would rather die than be forced into marriage or having children? Would the women happy to do so be enough?

CantAskAnyoneElse · 09/04/2023 18:55

Botw1 · 09/04/2023 17:23

@CantAskAnyoneElse

We're mammals. Of course its an urge

And yes it can be controlled. But men can also control their behaviour

It's ridiculous to suggest the only solution is not having kids

But I’m one of thse mammals and never had the urge.
So, clearly it’s not something all of us experience.
So it’s a lazy excuse.

Again, no idea why you think it’s ridiculous to not have children.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 09/04/2023 18:58

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 18:25

Granted, I’m antinatalist, so we’re not going to agree on that.

Watch if you actually achieved a tiny part of that how rape laws, marriage laws and abortion laws mean that men still get sex and children.

Generally the religious allow a very small number of women to be nuns or something where you can opt out. But very few and there's always another man along in a minute to raid the nunneries.

The only way you get to be child-free is because you live in a small part of the world, and a small period in history where that's possible.

So what you’re saying is that all of us, feminist even more so should celebrate and protect chilfree women.

Botw1 · 09/04/2023 18:58

@CantAskAnyoneElse

A few people not feeling it doesn't mean its not a thing.

I dont think its ridiculous to not have children, perfectly valid choice.

But not a realistic solution to inequality between the sexes

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 19:42

So what you’re saying is that all of us, feminist even more so should celebrate and protect chilfree women.

All women, including child free.

Fairislefandango · 09/04/2023 19:50

But I’m one of thse mammals and never had the urge. So, clearly it’s not something all of us experience. So it’s a lazy excuse.

So just because there are outliers who don't have the usual biological urge that animals have to reproduce, that makes everybody else lazy? If you don't have the inbuilt urge to do something, it's not exactly difficult to abstain from it, is it? It would be a bit like a person born with no appetite slagging people off gor eating. Or a person with no ability to feel the cold objecting to people wasting the earth's resources by wearing clothes.

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 19:58

Actually, concealed ovulation in some primates (humans included) does imply that the urge is for sex, not babies. Which in turn implies that the 'biological urge' we feel is probably mostly socialised. It's impossible to prove though because for example, I felt not great urge, nor did my mother or grandmother. but is that genetic or socialised?

One could argue that a genetic lack of urge to reproduce is possible because for most of human history it wasn't a choice. Now it is, theoretically a biological lack of wish to reproduce might be bred out in a few generations.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 09/04/2023 21:15

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/04/2023 19:42

So what you’re saying is that all of us, feminist even more so should celebrate and protect chilfree women.

All women, including child free.

Why?
Women who procreate with low quality men are part of the problem.

So just because there are outliers who don't have the usual biological urge that animals have to reproduce, that makes everybody else lazy?
Lazy excuse, I said.
And I don’t think trying to make me sound like unusual is going to help you here.
Everyone can choose to not bring a child into this world, let’s bot make it sound like we don’t have choice or any control of our actions.
It’s not like mothers are some kind of victims who couldn’t help their action.

Original poster

ThunderDad · 09/04/2023 22:36

Butchyrestingface · 08/04/2023 20:57

Night time curfews for men unless they're coming from/going to work. Electronic tags.

The first could be logistically difficult to police, I grant you. But this is blue sky thinking.

This is actually an audacious but rather brilliant suggestion. Many have voiced the opinion that men need to stop being violent and sexually assaulting women. But here is a solution which could actually achieve that if implemented.

Who here agrees that there should be electronic tags for all men and night time curfews? Does this go far enough? I'd be curious to know what you all think. It's one thing to talk about stopping violence and sexual harassment against women but this would actually make it a reality.

What do you think?

OP posts:

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/04/2023 22:57

cor

the loon convention continues I see

did the OP blow a conch or something?

Original poster

ThunderDad · 09/04/2023 22:59

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/04/2023 22:57

cor

the loon convention continues I see

did the OP blow a conch or something?

WB Bernard.

OP posts:

Botw1 · 09/04/2023 23:25

@ThunderDad

It's ridiculous

NP101 · 10/04/2023 00:18

ThunderDad · 09/04/2023 22:36

This is actually an audacious but rather brilliant suggestion. Many have voiced the opinion that men need to stop being violent and sexually assaulting women. But here is a solution which could actually achieve that if implemented.

Who here agrees that there should be electronic tags for all men and night time curfews? Does this go far enough? I'd be curious to know what you all think. It's one thing to talk about stopping violence and sexual harassment against women but this would actually make it a reality.

What do you think?

Show quote history

Perhaps we should just keep women and men completely segregated. It's a shame a relatively small cohort of men ruin it for everyone else.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 10/04/2023 06:56

relatively small cohort of men

Really?
You believe it’s ’relatively small’ group?

Delphinium20 · 10/04/2023 08:14

It’s not like mothers are some kind of victims who couldn’t help their action.

You clearly don't live in Poland, red states in the US, Afghanistan, or another country that bans abortion and contraception.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 10/04/2023 08:30

Delphinium20 · 10/04/2023 08:14

It’s not like mothers are some kind of victims who couldn’t help their action.

You clearly don't live in Poland, red states in the US, Afghanistan, or another country that bans abortion and contraception.

Like none of us are.
And none of these makes rest of the women victims.

NP101 · 10/04/2023 10:13

CantAskAnyoneElse · 10/04/2023 06:56

relatively small cohort of men

Really?
You believe it’s ’relatively small’ group?

I was under the impression there were a lot of multiple repeat offenders, overwhelmingly men, who commit crime. Unless we had a minority report type situation them segregating would help the women who are victims at least. Obviously we couldn't allow people to identify as a different sex though.

CantAskAnyoneElse · 10/04/2023 11:07

Oh, you just meant criminals!
I thought we were talking about decent vs. non-decent men.
With all the talks about standards etc.