What are the goals of feminism?

[ThunderDad]

I am interested to know what are the goals of feminism in 2023. I'm honestly curious as someone who doesn't know a whole lot about it.

Night time curfews for men unless they're coming from/going to work. Electronic tags.

The first could be logistically difficult to police, I grant you. But this is blue sky thinking.

For the OP to learn to google

For futile threads like this not to be created.

Wow - I wish I'd looked at the thread where the OP was encouraged to start one of his own before I bothered responding to this one. His position on feminism is all too clear.

Here's a tip from an old timer, the men who start these threads are all the same. I always feel sorry for the since women who answer carefully and thoughtfully. Such wasted effort and kindness.

I wish I'd sat on my hands. Can you just slap my hands away from the keyboard when I'm tempted?

It's probably best to leave aside the 'kindness' debate as neither of us can prove the other wrong.

Cool, so you agree that it was wrong to state that women are treated with more kindness and consideration.
What claim did you believe I was making (that you think can't be proved wrong)?

Did this belief (that you brought up and claimed) affect how you live your life, how you view the lived experiences of people you haven't met, your attitudes towards women? Or are you just handwaving it away?

You don't really seem to understand how the real world works - you seem absolutely insistent that the people you have interacted with are directly reflective of either sex class.

Some of the posts here would suggest that it only ever goes one way.

I think that is your poor understanding, but perhaps reflect on who has said anything to make you think that? "Only ever goes one way" means that people are denying that any woman has ever hurt a man - I think you are dishonest to claim this, or are at very best writing something that you don't actually mean.

I think I'll leave it there as you seem unable to grasp basic concepts, or pretend that you don't. (You are adding to my lived experience that people who claim to be men are illogical and act on their emotions rather than trying to analyse what is objectively true, as well as being utterly unsympathetic to women reporting years' worth of abuse and assault. Luckily I am able to recognise that this is entirely unrelated to the question of which sex - as a class - holds power and kills the other sex at an unacceptably frequent rate).

The goal of feminism, fairly obviously, is equality of the sexes.

But I'm guessing (from only reading the ops replies) that they think it's men who have it worse off.

We will never achieve the goals of feminism because too many people believe the rot the op is peddling.

That women need to be pcg/default parent and men need to be the provider. Spouting nonsense about attachment theory they clearly don't understand

That men are treated worse than women. That vawg is comparable in scale to abuse suffered by men.

Every gain feminsm makes is fought hard by men (amd women) who don't want equality.

We will never achieve the goals of feminism because too many people believe the rot the op is peddling. @Botw1

No, no, no
All due respect, things are changing, honestly.
They just want you to think that things can't change but that's untrue
Don't get despondent.

The patriarchy is in its death throes and kicking its hardest
Its decline is inevitable

@FredWinnie

Sadly I don't agree.

We've had some superficial progress over the last 100 years or so in some countries.

Some of which (reproductive rights) are already being rolled back.

But, really, not much has changed at all.

Mysoginist attitudes are still entirely common place

@Botw1

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative or dismissive, but the best and most constructive way to direct this thread is to outline the good changes.

Women have been empowered by forums like this
Women's lives have been changed, thanks to the power of the internet, which has enabled us to recognise and start pushing back against the micro misogyny

We need to keep pushing

My example - my grandson's football team (Year 5) had a girl as the team captain (she's brilliant)
A football match was organised and the captain was dropped so it could be all boys.
The parents of my grandson's team members withdrew their kids from the match until the captain was reinstalled.
there was an absolute outcry about it

Twenty years ago, the girl wouldn't have even made captain.

It's things like this we need to keep pushing, as well as the big stuff

@FredWinnie

And yet mumsnet is full of posts telling women they shouldn't work because it will permanently damage their children

Or that women who are sexually assaulted asked for it.

Or that they should give up their rights in favour of trans (mens) rights

@Botw1

I see them and they put my back up horribly

But recently a few posters have referred to posts being written by the hairy-hand brigade
After a while they're easier to spot
The MRA incel types stick out a mile after a while
I now usually manage to ignore the misogynists (usually)
The prevailing view out in RL is changing for the better, whatever the keyboard warriors in their parents' basements say

@FredWinnie

How is it changing?

And its not men who hold these views. Women are just as bad

@Botw1

In the real world?

The biggest change is numbers - as in more and more women and some men are saying no, this is not acceptable

Some people are still stuck in the old ways but in RL I personally have not encountered a single woman spouting the 'poor menz' and women stay at home bullshit for years

Both of my adult DC and their wide circles corroborate this shift
My friends and neighbours, their circles corroborate this too

It's not happening quickly at all but it is happening and we have to keep challenging poor attitudes however we can

In the wider world there are some atrocities being committed
We have to keep pushing and pushing against this

And for the women who are too tired, too exhausted and/or too discouraged, we support them and let them know that positive change will happen - maybe not in this lifetime, but it will happen

@FredWinnie

Except women are still the ones staying home.

98% of sahp are women. Women go part time much more often than men do.

The gender pay gap still exists

Women do far more domestic labour than men even when they work the same hours

We still teach girls to be people pleasers and that bagging a man is the end goal. We teach them to choose family friendly careers

A recent survey of under 35 yo showed that most respondents didn't think mums of preschoolers should work.

Attitudes havent changed that much

You don’t have to marry a man or have children, though.
I don’t understand what the big deal is 🤷🏽‍♀️
Women chose that lifestyle and now they’re crying a victim.

@CantAskAnyoneElse

Are you suggesting that for equality to happen women should remain single and child free?

Rather than men do their equality share?

I mean, all the research shows single childless women are happier so you might be onti something

This seems appropriate.

Yes, it does.

The one I particularly enjoy and men 'debating' abortion rights. Yes, let's 'debate' whether women in poor countries should die of infections from illegal abortions so you can get a say in whether your GF keeps a pregnancy caused by you wanting a consequence-free fuck.

So fun!

Why not?
What’s wrong with being single / childfree?
They are the happiest demographic, studies have shown that for years now.

Doesn’t seem like men want to change, and either way, it’s going a long wait.
In the mean while, why be with shitty men, who will be shitty fathers and have shitty kids, or kids with low standards / traumas?

If a woman selfishly want a man/kids, at least stop crying about it, it’s no secret what men are like, why think you’re going to be the exception?

@CantAskAnyoneElse

I dont think its selfish of women to want kids.

For most its a biological urge.

For men too.

The answer isn't to not have kids. It's to hold men to higher standards

Things are changing @Botw1
Very slowly but there is progress

Sorry - we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one

Granted, I’m antinatalist, so we’re not going to agree on that.

Urge or not (I don’t believe that’s a thing, more a sociatal pressure/ fear of being left alone) the person is still one in control.
I mean rapist say it was an urge, most of of us think that’s no excuse.

I’m all for rising standards, but vast majority won’t do that, and most men have no reason to start working on themselves.
There will always be a woman who will date/fuck/marry/have kids with men who are angry, lazy, watch porn/go to strip clubs, drink/smoke/do drugs, don’t have money, sexually coercive, don’t actually like women/ see them as fellow humans and so on.
Why would they change?
Just MN is filled with women who make excuses to the type of men I’ve listed…