Male behaviour in swimming pools

[Greyandrare123]

I go to a private gym that has a pool. I swim about 3x a week.
The people swimming are diverse. Women, men, all ages (adults only after 5pm).
The same behaviour I see on the streets operates in the pool. Males ploughing down the informal lanes, splashing and not giving a toss who is in their way. Ive had 2 men directly collide into me because I didnt see them behind me and move.

And then there is the wrestling. Groups of younger men wrestling with each other, throwing each other in the air, headlocking, pushing each others heads under water, shadow boxing etc. Splashing wildly in the middle of the pool so everyone else has to move.

Ive yet to see women do the same.

Then manspreading in the steam room. Legs wide apart.

Is this familiar? The lifeguards seem oblivious.

Thank you 🙏
There are lots of decent men, most men are decent, the problem is that the bad ones make a very big impression on us (because mostly humans are risk/loss averse, and this is just a survival adaptation)
If I'm honest I'm scared of almost all men apart from my husband my son and my father, it's kind of an animal instinct thing they are bigger than me and could overpower me. Not overtly scared and cowering in fear, just wary.
I think men can't really get this because they don't have that experience of so many others being bigger and stronger than them.
I know that the 'bad' men are also a threat to the decent men, but still it's down to the decent men to stand up to the bad men because they are still bigger and stronger than the women.
Men need to do more to deal with the problem of the bad men ☝🏻😡

Men need to do more to deal with the problem of the bad men ☝🏻😡

Agreed. And not just in pools although that would be a start. Twice on busy trains I have witnessed awful predatory sexual behaviour by men. And both times all the men in the carriage just averted their eyes, and it was 5 ft 3 me who dealt with the situation (in one case, a man showing a "flasher doll " to school girls. In the other, two bankers groping a young woman in her twenties.

Not a single man stepped in to stop them

Sorry, I realise this steps away from swimming. But being a 'good man" means more than just being passively good. It means calling out behaviours

But being a 'good man" means more than just being passively good. It means calling out behaviours
Yes, I'm sure those men who see themselves as good because they are not actual aggressors know fine well that the aggressors/bad men do not listen to women, will only listen to other men ....and yet they do nothing.
It's up to men to provide good role models for boys, fathers need to be proper fathers not leave it all to women and then skip off and indulge themselves.

Not a single man stepped in to stop them
@ValuePartnership , apologies for singling you out ....but you did put your head above the parapet ☝🏻👀
Can you explain this, what's going on in the minds of the other men witnessing this and yet not doing anything, leaving it to a woman to tackle the aggressor?
What's happening please?
We need to understand 🙏

I would think a lot of men might be worried about getting into a fight.

So he just sits there and lets a child take a hit?
Doesn't that mean that men are all either a waste of space or a danger to society?

You are totally right - all those commenting around this point of the postings. Some very "commanding" men - used to commanding (like army officer) or physically and attitudinally powerful, can, if so minded, intervene successfully. The average man like me who is not commanding in any sense, will as likely get ridiculed and have no effect - or, depending on degree of drunkenness, get set on. Men know this. BUT this is not the way it should happen anyway - it is time everyone -and especially "right-thinking" men demanded that everywhere associated with changing clothes, using the toilet, using public services and public transport etc. should be safe for women, and that men's spaces should not be a permitted location for deliberately intimidating macho physicality. For that to be the case, and before anything else, the idiocy of gender identity has got to be terminated. Biological men have got to be able to be addressed as men - and the minute the the trans activisis step in and say anyone who thinks he is a man is a man, there is no hope of that. Gender identity ideology is far-reaching in its impact - tell these idiot bucks to back off and they will start insisting they are all women! The pool needs a "Dean" (council/company officer) with powers to exclude people and to impose preliminary warnings when individuals are complained about. But try to demand that when all the council/company cares about it meeting Stonewall's directions. Women and pro-women's rights men have got to work together on these issues, and at the moment there is no organisation for them to do so. I know this does not anwer anything, but it is a start of getting to grips with the issues, perhaps.

Women and pro-women's rights men have got to work together on these issues
Thank you this does sound like it could be part of the way forward.
I think one problem is that men can go bad quite easily, women can go bad too of course but I think less readily and they do much less damage than the men do.
Once men are bad they become a problem for everyone and can very easily be completely ungovernable and out of control because everyone is scared of them (for good reason)
We need better role models for boys, good men, decent men to show boys how to be good men.

off-topic-ish, perhaps. I did once step in and tell a boy (about 13) to stop picking up all the fresh cakes and pastries, squeezing them, and putting them back (god knows why). His was there and tried to pick a fight "don't you talk to my son like that" - fortunately I struck back with "tell him to behave properly yourself and I wouldn't have to" - and walked off. He didn't follow. Part of the issue is knowing and feeling righteous (and not sounding self-righteous) and caring for strangers when they or their own people are supposed to know how to behave is very hard to feel you have a "right". But as I said, it's almost impossible when the meaning of sex, gender and behaviour are being confused and undermined (as the activists and academics intend).

I should have previewed that posting. It was missing "in a supermarket" and "his father was there and tried to pick a fight..." Sorry.

tell him to behave properly yourself and I wouldn't have to" - and walked off. He didn't follow
I can see that it takes quite a lot to come out with the right response, and you have to have a very finely tuned instinct as to who's gonna have a go back and who won't, you need to be able to judge the situation and weigh all up quickly.
My feeling is that men have a very keen sense of pecking order, how far they can push it etc, they size each other up very quickly.

Humiliating another man in front of his own son... that's a pretty big risk to take, but had he escalated he would have looked even more stupid in front of his son so you kind of had him cornered? He had no choice but to back down?

I was lucky perhaps, and over-confident - but I was also ready to fight if he did suddenly try something on (before the store security arrived to take the wrong side on everything!)

I can assure you I was equally worried about my own safety. I was terrified in fact . But I couldn't look the other way. My conscience wouldn't allow it. Whatever the cost.

I swim 5 times a week at least in a gym pool with no lifeguard. Its like the wild west sometimes. There are 2 dedicated swimming lanes with enough room (just for 2). I am a middle aged breast stroker but am fairly speedy but prob don't look it initially. Problem I have is men getting in to share the lane and then getting fucked off I am faster them. Then I get the kicking and sometimes punching when they pass me, the splashing me to fuck me off. Anything to force me out I have just learned to ride it out and eventually they get the message and they leave. They just run away. Then there's the men jumping in straight from the sauna. The men jumping in the lane in front of you. The hanging about the end of the lane so you cant touch the end without asking them to move.

Last year post covid it was the absolute worse. I complained nearly every night. Other women did too. Some of it was scary and dangerous. I had to take a woman into my lane late one night as a group of guys were hassling her. Gym did nothing. They did fuck all about any of it. Just ignored it. The usual men behaving atrociously and its easier to ignore the women complaining about it. Said their cctv couldn't identify people, said I would have to get out and go to reception if I wanted to complain, said they didn't keep cctv footage more than 2 days and as a manager would need to see it it was pointless. This a big chain.
Problem for them was that they lost load of women members and got a reputation. Not for the male behaviour but the absolute lack of doing anything at all about it. Not sure they even know that though. It eventually calmed down and actually this year has been ok. If there had been any alternative I would've left.

I gave up swimming due to one man. He wasn’t even ‘fast’ as such. He refused to go in front, if I waited at the wall, he’d wait until after you, and then splash past in a way that wasn’t much faster. Every length he’d hang around at the end to start off behind you. I tried breaking my stride to wait at the end etc to avoid him, but he waited too. He never did more than one fastish length before stopping again. So it was impossible to pace away from him. If you did a sprint length he’d really pick up a splashy pace.
When he did front crawl he swung his arm out and over your head before splashing, if you were in back stroke it was horrible to have his hand pass so close. He made frequent ‘accidental’ contact passing.
There was a group of mums swimming during swimming lessons, most of us a bit slower and not the usual swimmers. Just exercising when we could. One lane open. He only came during swimming lessons when one lane was open. Half an hour later the pool emptied and 3 lanes were open, but he left and started with lessons at various times through the week (I had kids in different stages and saw this).
A few of us spoke to lifeguards but it wasn’t ever addressed. He just glared at women and clearly went to get a fix of this behaviour without challenge. He was older but tall and broad and although I’m quite bold I wasn’t comfortable approaching someone who was so clearly being challenging and wore the expression he did.
It was sickening one man drove so many women out of the pool, I spoke to around 5 others who also decided not to swim because of him whilst their child had lessons. There was never anything really provable enough for the lifeguards standards

A few of us spoke to lifeguards but it wasn’t ever addressed. He just glared at women and clearly went to get a fix of this behaviour without challenge. He was older but tall and broad and although I’m quite bold I wasn’t comfortable approaching someone who was so clearly being challenging and wore the expression he did.
It was sickening one man drove so many women out of the pool, I spoke to around 5 others who also decided not to swim because of him whilst their child had lessons. There was never anything really provable enough for the lifeguards standards

I volunteered at a community swimming pool (not UK) - many years ago, but I doubt men have changed. Basically there are two types who do this: type A are men who are used to the world revolving around them, and who expect women to make way for them. Some of them will respond to requests to be more considerate, though they will whinge like mad. Also if they are doing something specifically shitty, e.g. swimming in the wrong lane for their pace, the lifeguard can ask them to move. Unfortunately yours sounds like type B- they are doing it deliberately. They are more cunning and it's very hard to address because everything they do could be an accident - almost every frequent swimmer occasionally accidentally swings an arm over another pool user, for example. Proving they do it deliberately is very difficult. They actually tend to target men even more than women - presumably an ego thing - but women are understandably more intimidated because of the size/strength disparity. Unfortunately the world is full of tossers.

I absolutely fucking hate men who swing their big meaty arms over you when they're doing front crawl. Why the hell should I have to duck every time I pass you 😡

I think this proves why women only sessions and /or lanes are so important.

They don't seem to run them anywhere near me any more though

I did have a lovely lifeguard when I was pregnant and felt unsafe around the aggressive male swimmers and he would sign a lane as "private lessons" so I could swim in peace

I dont think I would swim if my pool stopped offering women-only sessions. I go twice a week. We did have a period where a trans women turned up with their blue-haired handmaiden, spent the hour splashing and squealing in the shallow end for a few sessions, desperately looking around for attention but stopped going when the women (mostly over 50's and no-nonsense) just ignored them and carried on with their laps. I think they were disappointed it was not what they had expected.
We are here to swim, it's not a frat pool party.

a trans women turned up with their blue-haired handmaiden, spent the hour splashing and squealing in the shallow end for a few sessions, desperately looking around for attention but stopped going when the women (mostly over 50's and no-nonsense) just ignored them and carried on with their laps
just like a man....expecting the admiration of women

Lolling at the blue haired handmaiden. I know several of her.
I'd love women only sessions and after today's chatstravaganza I'd also really enjoy sessions where nobody’s allowed to talk to each other.
I felt like I was in the twilight zone when a guy produced his phone whilst in the jacuzzi.
I side eyed him imagining allsorts of upsetting type perversions but he was actually filming and photographing himself.
In the Jacuzzi.
I reminded myself of the old woman who possesses phoebe in Friends: think they go to a lesbian wedding and the old lady spirit declares 'now I've seen everything' and her soul departs from phoebe's body.

*upskirting, not upsetting, although it is in context

When I used to go first thing on a morning you had two periods of assault - you had the splashy execs who were in first - but you could avoid them as I'm a slow lane person and they were never ever going to leave the fast lane as doing so automatically shrunk their dick 3 inches. Then you'd get the older slightly letchy guys show up who would do all the "accidental" touching and try to get as close to your arse as they could to get their kicks.

I no longer swim.

Oh god yeah the men who are always accidentally brushing into you <shudder>