Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

The worst thing would be make passive aggressive remarks or snarky comments. So I would be super gentle but honest, once. Something like- I need to talk to you about your surrogacy plans. I’m sure you’ll have considered deeply the needs of the baby and the biological need for the woman who grew and birthed the baby. I am just struggling so much with the idea of separating them, probably because I would have been devastated. I totally respect your right to make this choice and I think you’ll be wonderful parents. I don’t want you to feel like you have to convince me or that I’m attacking you. How would you like me to deal with this? I can just not discuss it with you or we could have a conversation if you preferred? I value you so much as friends I don’t want to lose you because of how I feel about this issue.

OP - for me your feelings matter and are completely understandable. I wonder whether going to see them in feb is such a good idea?

". I totally respect your right to make this choice and I think you’ll be wonderul parents."

But that wouldn't be gentle and honest from the the POV of the op. She doesn't respect their right to make the choice, she fundamentally disagrees with it, as is her right. But if that's her stance surely e has a moral obligation to speak up or t the very least not attend, Accept their responsibility while kissing their family as immoral.

I'm wondering if you and the other poster might be using slightly different mental definitions of trauma.

The definitions used vary quite a bit in what they might imply in this conversation — the original definition of a physical wound or injury was later used figuratively to mean a psychic/mental injury, particularly one with longlasting unhealed mental effects. But it doesn't have to mean something which causes longlasting or permanent psychological dysfunction and anguish, which is how the word is often used generally at the moment — and the definition widely used at the moment almost exclusively refers to the ongoing anguish and dysfunction of a psychological open wound.

If we take it as given that what humans evolved to do is for the mother of the child to be almost its sole carer for a significant length of time, as babies were entirely dependent on their mother's breastmilk for several months until very recently, and also take it as given that babies are intelligent, if undeveloped, human beings with the ability to recognise their mothers and form an emotional connection to them possibly from before birth, then it's not unreasonable to suggest that permanently separating a newborn from its mother — whom the baby recognises, and expects to be its sole carer — for whatever reason, could be considered a kind of mental injury to the infant, which the baby might need some time and care to heal from.

But people are capable of recovering from injuries, both mental and physical, and we know that many people lead happy functional lives after adoption or having their mother die in childbirth or being separated from the woman who gave birth to them for some other reason. Something can be "a trauma"/injury, without causing "trauma"/longlasting mental distress, and someone suggesting that something you experienced is a variety of trauma/mental injury is not necessarily saying that you currently "have trauma", or even implying anything about the severity of that trauma. Trauma can be a broken finger from accidentally slamming it in a door, or unsurvivable injuries from a rooftop fall.

I agree, I find the thought of a child not having a mother and not understanding why very difficult.

While not getting into the other points of your post, just remember, not everyone has the same experience that you did.

My baby was not on my chest rooting for milk afterwards, I had chosen not to breastfeed, but had a rough birth and was getting sewn back together afterwards. My husband took over, he held her, got her dressed, gave her, her first bottle. He did a fantastic job. My daughter was equally attached to both of us. Still is.

Men can still do an amazing job with a newborn

I totally respect your right to make this choice and I think you’ll be wonderful parents. I don’t want you to feel like you have to convince me or that I’m attacking you. How would you like me to deal with this?

Seriously?

This is just grovelling for not being delighted about the baby buying. And implies that there could be no problem at all with it.

As usual, the expectation is of women apologising to men for objecting to the commodification of human life and the use of women as mere incubators for it. ‘How would you like me to deal with my unacceptable opinions?’

Well I don't see it as that and don't have an issue with it. If women want to help a family out who can't have kids then that's fair enough in my opinion.

Like if the woman is infertile or if she nearly died giving birth then uses a surrogate for her next baby. That's good enough reasons to use one.

Why is anyone entitled to a baby?

Infertility sucks, but it doesn't mean you can buy a child.

No one needs more than one child. If it's too dangerous to carry another child, well that's shit but that's life. It doesn't mean you're now allowed to put another woman's life in danger.

Like I've said before, you show me a rich woman who has a baby for a poor one and I'll believe it's a free choice.

Again that's your opinion but I would carry a child for someone but for free 😊

So it's too dangerous for you, but you can pay someone else to take that risk? Do you really not see any issues with that?

I know someone who nearly died in child birth. I would have a child for her if she didn't want to risk it. And wouldn't want any money for it.

I’ve got a ranty post higher up this thread saying I don’t think women understand the risk. They think it will never happen to them. I don’t believe any mentally sound woman would genuinely say “it’s worth the risk!”.

I'm also repulsed at the idea of babies being bought from their mothers. I couldn't bear to be around anyone who had the absolute selfishness to do this to a baby.
I'm also concerned that many (not all) male couples are misogynists and bringing up a boy or a girl in that environment is problematic.

End of friendship for me, I'm afraid.

"I'm not prepared to risk my life again but it's fair game for someone else to risk theirs as long as I give them enough wonga to take the risk for me"

Na. Its not a good enough reason. Its morally reprehensible. Perhaps even more so, because of the implicit awareness of the danger of pregnancy and childbirth involved and how it could affect the future fertility of that woman (who can't afford surrogacy herself).

Like I've said I'd do it for free because my friend is family to me and would risk it for her.

That’s not commercial surrogacy though, unless you plan to bill your friend for uterus rental…

altruistic surrogacy where it’s an arrangement between two people known to each other, is different.

this “for parts” surrogacy where an egg is taken from one woman, a uterus from another, and the motivation is purely financial, is abhorrent. It’s buying goods.

there’s also an increasing market in the US aimed at students selling their eggs. I am glad that cannot happen here.

It's easy to commit to a hypothetical though isn't it?
Come back to us once you have to go through months of IVF, bedrest, c-section, prolapse, PPD for a baby that isnt yours. Then you fall out with your friends because she's jealous that you carried her baby and can never "repay" you. What if you die and your children are orphaned?
It shouldn't be allowed to ask or pay another woman to take those risks. Far too much scope for exploitation.

I think anyone who willingly allows someone to risk their life for someone in this way, is morally reprehensible, given how much they understand the risk to life and future fertility.

You have to be incredibly narcissistic to do that. They aren't a person who cares about you enough to carry a child for them...

The argument is rather circular on this one I'm afraid. Anyone who is narcissistic enough to commission a surrogate under any circumstances is also not someone who you should be surrogate for.

Its appalling to knowingly pass the risk or expect someone to take the risk out of emotional obligation of some form.

This is why I have as much of a problem with heterosexual couples as gay couples tbh.

None of it is OK.

Again you thinking of the worst case scenario here. Probably wouldn't happen and again I would do it for my friend. My friend would hardly get jealous. Again your opinion. I'm entitled to mine.

Whether you think you would do it or not is really irrelevant. It's not ok for someone to ask another person to take on those risks.

My friend hadn't asked tho. I would offer. Big difference

I harshly judge all people renting women and buying babies, but I reserve my harshest scorn for women who already have a baby and are STILL willing to risk another woman’s health for their own means. At least gay men go into it with no real concept of what it means to carry a child and all that goes with it.

She would still have to say yes, even if you offer.

Personally I think offering isn't necessarily a nice thing to do, because it puts her in a position where she has to consider taking that risk. If she cares about you she should say no flat. Offering almost is torturing with the hope and promise of another child, rather than letting her come to terms with just having one.