Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

No problem with a gay man being a father. It’s the method of achieving that, that is the problem.

I know plenty of gay men who are great parents. And they 'should' have been parents. It's not about sexuality.

It's the reality that a woman can get her hands on sperm fairly easily but a man has to rent a womb. Wanking isn't life-threatening and one of the most risky things a man can do. Pregnancy and childbirth are.

Some people want to make it about sexuality because then they can hide the ethical issues behind pretend homophobia. It would be just as bad if a straight couple, or one straight man, did it.

Interestingly, do you ever hear of a lesbian couple buying babies? I can't think of any.

No, most people here have been very clear that gay men are perfectly good parents, no issues with that whatsoever. It's the method of using women to produce a child for cash that's the issue, whether the commissioning people are male, female, gay or straight.

I agree that the accusations of homophobia as a distraction technique is deeply problematic.

The issue is that biologically two men cannot produce a baby. They require the involvement of a woman.

The process of pregnancy is the arduous for any woman. It’s one of the most dangerous things a human can do. Harvesting eggs is similarly difficult and requires a range of interventions to make it happen.

it is deeply problematic to just decide to pay for that. And to insist on complex donation processes to ensure no woman can easily claim motherhood. Of course, it means the child cannot properly understand its biological heritage either (which is not good).

there are alternatives. Forming a family with a lesbian couple is far less exploitative, for example. But it requires compromise and doesn’t allow you to buy a ready made family to your exact specifications.

The issues have nothing to do with whether gay men can be adequate parents but the basic biological facts involved.

There is no entitlement to a biological child. There just isn’t. The fact many other people can have it, doesn’t change that.

I’ve gone through the surrogacy process. Most of my friends who were around at the time are still there, and we are still firm friends. I got the odd vibe off one of them and frankly, decision made, I didn’t want her friendship if she was going to be like that. Who would? Chances are that your friends who are about to go through something similar will feel the same about you. They’ll make many more friends through their child, and they won’s miss you. So let them go.

Ethical issue comes with rational thought. Wanting children isn't. I really don't know, tbh. Buying children sound horrible. But I don't see it that way. I see it as providing for the time the mother of the baby can't work, so she can have peaceful pregnancy not worrying about the financial side of her life. It's a great commitment to carry a baby to term.
Another thing I think about is, that gay men have no choice. They need help of woman if they ever wanted to have their own children one way or another. Is adoption better? That the child was somehow unwanted/cannot be taken care of by biological parents? I see no difference in that the mother had to go through same process. In both cases, she got pregnant by a man. One could be willing to take care of the child, and other not.

Is adoption better?

The people adopting aren't creating the trauma in that case so yes, of course it's different.

And it's not women stopping men spontaneously reproducing, it's biology. The same biology which in most cases is worse for women. In this case it's better for women. That doesn't mean we get punished for it.

If a gay man (or couple) can reach an amicable co-parenting arrangement with a woman, fair play to him (or them). Or adopt if he/they feel able (it's a very unique and challenging thing to do). Or foster (ditto). Going elsewhere in the world to rent a womb and buy a baby (because so many countries have made it illegal) is wrong.

I had horrifying pregnancy sickness, a genuinely traumatic birth and I'm old. I would have liked another child (or even to have had someone else do the heavy lifting with the first pregnancy) but it's wrong to have a surrogate.

Is adoption better?

in what way?

surrogacy is creating a baby and causing trauma to that baby by taking it away from it’s mother at birth, and not allowing that child to know either it’s gestational or biological mother.

adoption the child is already in a situation where the trauma exists. Adopting such a child is not easy, but the intention is usually to help the child, not traumatise it further.

in the US anyway I believe it’s easier to relinquish a baby for adoption? Unlike the UK. So the question I would ask of a gay couple, is why they need a surrogate baby when one of them won’t be related to the child anyway, so one of them is effectively adopting an unrelated baby anyway. If it works for one, why not the other?

Realistically if you wouldn’t feel the same way about women doing it your issue isn’t with surrogacy

So the question I would ask of a gay couple, is why they need a surrogate baby when one of them won’t be related to the child anyway, so one of them is effectively adopting an unrelated baby anyway. If it works for one, why not the other?

I think it's really unfair to say that, how many couples who got divorced or separated with children wanting their own children together? Or why can't any couple wanting children just adopt?

So the question I would ask of a gay couple, is why they need a surrogate baby when one of them won’t be related to the child anyway, so one of them is effectively adopting an unrelated baby anyway. If it works for one, why not the other?

This was meant to be a quote.

Has anyone said they don't have an issue with a straight couple using a surrogate mother?

I don't think so. But perhaps I missed it. I don't care what sex or sexual persuasion the people buying a baby are nor do I know anyone who does.

If you spot any homophobia, do let MNHQ know.

@tabbysarerude I beg your pardon? Some of us were physically incapable of breastfeeding. Some of us had to go straight back onto strong medication with zero choice in the matter. How dare you come on here & try to shame mothers who didn't breastfeed?!
My baby never needed to 'root' for a feed because I always made sure she was fed in plenty of time so she was a very happy, contented & well nourished baby!

Don't forget that there are some breast fed babies out there who suckle all day and barely get a trickle! There are also some who get plenty but the mother has such an appalling diet that theres barely any nourishment in her milk! So it's not always best....

I was just wondering. In the future, maybe we can have a baby in something like artificial womb. Are people opposing surrogate be ok with it, since it doesn't involve vulnerable woman being exploited? It will be so great if that happened, imo.
I had to go through fertility treatment. The desire to want the baby is so strong, sometimes make you really mentally ill. I really wonder people saying buying a baby etc, did ever went through something like that or not .

You haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

@grapehyacinthisactuallyblue yes. I went through over 2 years of infertility.

I've felt the crushing pain of wanting a baby and not being able to have one.

I've been through all the testing and not finding out why my body wasn't doing what it should.

I've been through the process to start IVF and had all the risks of that procedure explained to me.

I've started the process of coming to terms with never having a child.

I never once felt I was so entitled to a baby that I could use another woman to achieve that.

Buying a baby is always wrong. I couldn’t be friends with them if they see babies as commodities and women as vessels. Tells me all I need to know about them.

Rebel Wilson and her girlfriend bought a baby.

Most people --who buy babies- use surrogates are straight. Stop hijacking this into a homophobia issue. It isn't to do with whether gay men make good parents (they can and do) but the ethics of buying a baby / human trafficking / exploiting poor women for their reproductive parts.

Some of the comments on this thread make me weep - I've never seen Handmaid's Tale but I understand that it was generally considered a warning, not a promotional reel.

I would distance myself from them. And only express your views if they ask why your being distant.

"adoption the child is already in a situation where the trauma exists"

Yeah, you can go fuck yourself

Truth hurts, huh?

Well no, that's the whole point, and it's not a universal truth for adopted people.
My life didn't start with trauma so using it as a debating point in the unrelated subject of surogacy is a pretty scummy thing to do.

It does result in trauma for many people, but not all, so don't make statements of fact when you're existing an opinion. It's a lazy stereotype

*expressing