Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

I can’t believe that this friend wasn’t instantly shut down with a “Mind your own business!”

You know there's more of chance pregnancy and birth going fine. Mine went smoothly on both and not high risk

@Emmamoo89 why are you me-railing this thread with your own specific and rare circumstance? No one is saying you can't be an altruistic surrogate for your friend - ten times over if you like. In the OP's situation, the two men are buying an egg and renting a woman's uterus. It's not altruistic.

I'm just replying to other people and giving my opinion. I wouldn't fall out with them.

You’d risk death so a friend could have a baby… and you’ve already got children?! So you’d risk your own children losing their mother? All under the impression that “it probably won’t happen to you”? I think I’ll leave it there then, not sure I can make sense of that enough to respond.

Familial and friendship surrogacy is the ultimate act of kindness.

Bought surrogacy is vile
And disgusting. No part of a woman's body should be allowed to be rented.

Be that by the hour or by 9 months.

Gay people should enter coparenting relationships with friends or adopt if a family or friend can't/won't be a surrogate.

This is it for me. We don’t remove baby animals from their mothers immediately so why are children different.

It’s abhorrent and would be the end of the friendship for me.

'Ultimate act of kindness'

How do you distinguish it from emotional blackmail and coerced agreement?

Just curious.

And how does it resolve if something goes wrong or you disagree?

You risk not just physical well being but also close relationships...

Seems pretty selfish on the part of those saying yes please do it for us, however you cut it.

Kindness to whom ? I agree on the face on it that this seems less exploitative, but there can still be emotional pressure exerted, and there is still in this, another person, the baby.

Isn’t it fascinating that it’s yet another use of the concept of ‘kindness’ to shape women’s behaviour and ensure their bodies are available to be used as needed.

women who say no are just less kind, aren’t we?

Gay people should enter coparenting relationships with friends or adopt if a family or friend can't/won't be a surrogate

I would encourage anyone of this position to conflate the sister of Brian Dowling as she has a daughter for him and his husband, see thread link below. I would also ask someone who thinks this way to consider the baby girl who was born because all the adults decided this was what they were going to do, and whether those decisions were freely made for all parties.

(Also 'gay people' here really refers to same sex male couples as a lesbian couple are far less likely to commission a baby, although when it does happen, it is more to do with social surrogacy than being a same sex couple, due to sperm donation, anonymous or otherwise.)

Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4625951-celebrity-surrogacy-find-this-a-bit-heartbreaking

"Use one".

What an interesting and highly appropriate turn of phrase.

I obviously didn't mean it like that 🙄

I agree with this

More chance of me having a smooth pregnancy and birth than me dying. ☺️

I'm not convinced that coparenting by design rather than by misfortunate relationship breakdown is an ideal situation for a small child.

The problem is the child needs as much stability and consistency as possible. That's had to achieve even with two parents. Add in more and you have more adult relationships to manage and we know this can be hard with step parenting arrangements.

If a child has multiple homes and multiple parents by design, has the child's interests been front and central or has the wants of the adults been more important?

I'm afraid that it's an uncomfortable and difficult conversation to have - one that do lead to accusations of homophobia and prejudices against gay men being poor parents. I don't think this. However you still should be always asking about what the best interests of the child(ren) are at all times.

Ethically this is a crucial question that shouldnt be swept under the table.

There may be better ways to do things that others that should be explored.

"I would carry a child for someone but for free."

Assuming you're not referring to charging monthly womb rental via a total cost (divided by 10-12 months or more if you include fertility treatment and post birth recovery) to account for 'altruistic expenses' as is done in the U.K., you could charge a certain amount of money would be considered out of pocket expenses, such as:

Folic acid
Transport (fuel or public transport) and car parking to/from appointments
Maternity clothes

In the U.K., under the supposedly altruistic only system under the law you can also charge for the 'out of pocket' expense of having a mobile phone contract, the cost of putting a roof over your head (rental and mortgage costs) and even 'treats' such as take aways and holidays.

The U.K. law has clearly and deliberately created a grey area for charging money for the 'use' of a 'surrogate' - a women to offer up her reproductive capabilities - which isn't actually out of pocket pregnancy related expenses, but is actually a form of 'cooking the books' in order to get the average amount charge to £15k.

How much did your pregnancy cost?

@RedToothBrush I thought my views and you know made it clear that I meant "freely gone into without coercion"

My best friend was a surrogate for her sister who had cancer as a young woman. A long time ago mow.

A gay couple, I know one of the guys sister was a surrogate for him & his husband.

Anyone coerced is a complete no in my book.

You didn't answer how you tell the difference between someone giving freely and someone coerced....

@RedToothBrush well there is a well known concept.
It's called informed and enthusiastic consent.

If you can't understand what that means, you probably should do some reading.

(And probably you shouldn't be on a feminist board)

And try and learn how to behave in a more sisterly fashion to another woman on a feminist chat room whilst you're at it

I nearly went down the surrogacy route. I am infertile and my sister tried to persuade me to let her be a surrogate. And so we went to a couple of appointments at a clinic and had counselling etc.

But I pulled out when

A. they started talking about giving hormones to my perfectly healthy sister and as someone with massive hormone imbalances I wouldn't wish that on anyone

B. I realised I could not live with the possibility of ending up in a situation where I might have to justify to her daughter how her mum died because of me

C. As much as I could see the conversation of 'mummy couldn't have a baby so auntie had one for her' might make sense when a child was younger, I just wasn't sure of the impact that might have long term on a child.

It was hard to persuade my sister I was okay with not going through with it, and I totally understood that, because if the situation was reversed I would have offered to be a surrogate for her.

My sister was higher paid than me and better qualified so there was no pressures from a financial aspect. It was purely sisterly love. But I regret even going to those intital appointments because sisterly love goes both ways and I love my sister too much to risk losing her.

I would absolutely support surrogacy being illegal in the UK even if that makes me selfish because I had the option to explore it for my situation. I still carry residual guilt for doing so even though I know my sister would think I was crackers for feeling like that.

Oh god OP. Your feelings stem from your own experience of motherhood.
I am a coward, I would call off the visit and not say why unless they asked. But if they did press me I would be honest, but make it about my feelings, not about them, IYSWIM. After all, you can't see into their hearts and heads. But you can be sure of your own life and emotions.

Sorry OP I forgot the point of my rambling post about my own experience.

I wish someone had sat me down and had an honest conversation with me about how selfish I was to consider surrogacy. Instead I was surrounded by well meaning people who told me how beautiful what my sister was doing for me was and kept trying to persuade me to continue when I decided against it.

I would have loved some backup to the little voice in my head telling me it was wrong. instead of everyone encouraging me.

I don’t see how even truly altruistic surrogacy is without external pressures and pitfalls. I have a close friend who is a people pleaser to an extraordinary degree. She is desperate for recognition and approval from others despite being a truly wonderful human. She would definitely agree to an altruistic surrogacy even if it was not in her best interest. Not that surrogacy can ever be in the best interest of the surrogate.

@Scout2016 we harvested eggs in IVF how is that grim? Let me guess you are privileged enough to be fertile and have no problems conceiving. Your comment is completely offensive to women who struggle to conceive.