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Feminism: chat

Why are there no violent femcels?

131 replies

Laneyy · 14/11/2022 11:39

I was watching a documentary about incels last night. It was quite scary how entitled some men feel entitled to sex of course with attractive women like they see on porn. They hammer their faces talk about killing and raping women. I think porn has a lot to answer for the rise in incels, they can't be bothered going out and talking to actual women. Just furiously wanking to women on screen..

Men and women are different it's easy for a female to get a meaningless shag which will probably be terrible but a meaningful relationship can be more difficult. I was pondering many women end up in dead end relationships ,we have a fertility time limit. Many men will waste a woman's time saying later not now until she's no longer fertile taking her chance to have biological children. Women don't then go on a murderous rampage.

OP posts:
SnowFir · 14/11/2022 12:09

This guy even admitted to attacking random women because he hated women.
www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-11-11/man-who-attacked-a-nurse-and-threw-hot-tea-in-her-face-jailed
I've seen people defending men being angry because "Women only want the top 20% of men which leaves many men behind" It makes no sense as if women were only interested in the top 20% of men it would leave 80% of women behind too!

SnowFir · 14/11/2022 12:11

Meant to say I've seen people making the above point on mumsnet.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 14/11/2022 12:15

I have never looked at a man and wanted to fuck him. I have felt lust but it is always with an emotional element. That is not what the incels describe. They don't see us as human.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 12:18

Imagine this, let's say you are a 15-20 years old, you are alienated from many of your peers and by your society, you struggle intensely with making friends and especially attracting girls, you start falling into a real deep and dark pit of despair, you start losing hope about your situation, become desperate to figure out what's wrong with you, you, as a young alienated man in the 21st Century turn to the internet for advice and answers. While there, you probably first encounter women or average people lacking your issues who give you incredibly weak advice prone to failure, "be nice", "befriend the opposite sex", "read feminist literature and unpack your privilege and entitlement", etc. When this fails maybe you next encounter the "red pill" PUA community, they tell you the problem is that you are just weak, pathetic, you need to man up and you probably need to accumulate wealth despite being a young man in a terrible economy.

As time goes on and the advice either fails or is non-actionable, the two sides increasingly exaggerate their criticisms of you, as you grow bitter the first faction you encountered begin telling you what a terrible person you are, how you deserve to be alone and hopefully always will be, how society owes you nothing and your own frustration proves you deserve your lot in life and you would be happy with social alienation if not for your entitlement and their only real concern is making sure you don't become "a danger"; it becomes achingly clear these people never cared about you even remotely and saw you almost like a stray dog, either you get tamed or sent to the pound. Meanwhile the advice of the other faction, effectively to be an asshole, continues to be flatly unactionable and undesirable to you, and as such they compound in your head what a weak and failed man you are.

At this point you're pretty low, and are being kicked while you're down, you're still alone, still with few or no friends, incredibly miserable. Then one day you encounter a group of men who reach their hand out to you, tell you it's okay, they experienced many of what you went through and that they do not see you as a future monster or as weak, they will accept you, unconditionally, they will let you experience your hurt and your frustration, they will not try forcing a plan of action into you like PUA types, and unlike feminists they won't stop you from feeling the fullness of your despair and your anger, you are not a pawn to them, not a tool, you are simply you, and that is all they want you to be. And beyond that, they want the best for you, want you to escape your loneliness, escape your despair. They take you and bring you into a community of other men deep in despair like your own. Many people say boys and men choose to join those communities, it is more accurate to say those communities choose them. That was how things were when I first encountered these people, as a 16 year old kid, back in 2014. For the first time in my life I was granted absolute acceptance and permitted to feel what I felt without judgement.
^^
Now, don't get me wrong, these communities are like heroin for a young man, the opening pitch gets you absolutely hooked but once you are addicted it destroys you. The PUAs and feminists got me to hate who I am, incels and black pillers got me to hate what I am, and in the end they all left me wanting to die, perhaps the black pill most of all. What I say is not, therefore, an endorsement but an explanation, I see many online seemingly refusing to understand why young men are in these places, they refuse to understand the loneliness so many are trapped in, their frustration with their circumstances, and their desperation for unconditional acceptance from someone that understands their predicament and can empathize with them. Even now when I am no longer an incel, have a loving girlfriend, have had quite a few girlfriends and casual encounters, I still sympathize with these young men. I can remember what it was like, to have a hand finally extending and being told if I take it i will never be judged. These communities were not always what they have become, radicalized into disturbing madness, hatred, and a hunger for blood. Why do liberals refuse to understand?

Some insight from a poster dragged into this kind of world.

Handyweatherstation · 14/11/2022 15:12

Interesting post, Liebig, but the question is about why there aren't violent female incels.

WomenShouldWinWomensSports · 14/11/2022 15:18

Testosterone? Socialisation leaning towards toxic male entitlement?
Probably a bit of both, but with better socialisation and cultural structures that make women and men equally valued and esteemed, I like to think this sort of shit narrative would die out completely. They choose that behaviour because they believe it’s an option open to them and have extremely limited foresight for the consequences.
On bad days I think we just need to send them away at a certain age and create a society without them but I think they’d still find a way to wreck it because they so doggedly think women shouldn’t have nice things.

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:22

Is there even such thing as a female incel (involuntarily celibate) to begin with?

BarbaraofSeville · 14/11/2022 15:22

Probably just another illustration of the fact that the vast majority of criminals, especially violent ones, are male.

There are 82k people currently in prison in England and wales and 79k of them are male. And if you exclude the non violent offenders, the percentage of men will be even higher.

Kanaloa · 14/11/2022 15:28

Liebig · 14/11/2022 12:18

Imagine this, let's say you are a 15-20 years old, you are alienated from many of your peers and by your society, you struggle intensely with making friends and especially attracting girls, you start falling into a real deep and dark pit of despair, you start losing hope about your situation, become desperate to figure out what's wrong with you, you, as a young alienated man in the 21st Century turn to the internet for advice and answers. While there, you probably first encounter women or average people lacking your issues who give you incredibly weak advice prone to failure, "be nice", "befriend the opposite sex", "read feminist literature and unpack your privilege and entitlement", etc. When this fails maybe you next encounter the "red pill" PUA community, they tell you the problem is that you are just weak, pathetic, you need to man up and you probably need to accumulate wealth despite being a young man in a terrible economy.

As time goes on and the advice either fails or is non-actionable, the two sides increasingly exaggerate their criticisms of you, as you grow bitter the first faction you encountered begin telling you what a terrible person you are, how you deserve to be alone and hopefully always will be, how society owes you nothing and your own frustration proves you deserve your lot in life and you would be happy with social alienation if not for your entitlement and their only real concern is making sure you don't become "a danger"; it becomes achingly clear these people never cared about you even remotely and saw you almost like a stray dog, either you get tamed or sent to the pound. Meanwhile the advice of the other faction, effectively to be an asshole, continues to be flatly unactionable and undesirable to you, and as such they compound in your head what a weak and failed man you are.

At this point you're pretty low, and are being kicked while you're down, you're still alone, still with few or no friends, incredibly miserable. Then one day you encounter a group of men who reach their hand out to you, tell you it's okay, they experienced many of what you went through and that they do not see you as a future monster or as weak, they will accept you, unconditionally, they will let you experience your hurt and your frustration, they will not try forcing a plan of action into you like PUA types, and unlike feminists they won't stop you from feeling the fullness of your despair and your anger, you are not a pawn to them, not a tool, you are simply you, and that is all they want you to be. And beyond that, they want the best for you, want you to escape your loneliness, escape your despair. They take you and bring you into a community of other men deep in despair like your own. Many people say boys and men choose to join those communities, it is more accurate to say those communities choose them. That was how things were when I first encountered these people, as a 16 year old kid, back in 2014. For the first time in my life I was granted absolute acceptance and permitted to feel what I felt without judgement.
^^
Now, don't get me wrong, these communities are like heroin for a young man, the opening pitch gets you absolutely hooked but once you are addicted it destroys you. The PUAs and feminists got me to hate who I am, incels and black pillers got me to hate what I am, and in the end they all left me wanting to die, perhaps the black pill most of all. What I say is not, therefore, an endorsement but an explanation, I see many online seemingly refusing to understand why young men are in these places, they refuse to understand the loneliness so many are trapped in, their frustration with their circumstances, and their desperation for unconditional acceptance from someone that understands their predicament and can empathize with them. Even now when I am no longer an incel, have a loving girlfriend, have had quite a few girlfriends and casual encounters, I still sympathize with these young men. I can remember what it was like, to have a hand finally extending and being told if I take it i will never be judged. These communities were not always what they have become, radicalized into disturbing madness, hatred, and a hunger for blood. Why do liberals refuse to understand?

Some insight from a poster dragged into this kind of world.

Gosh, in the most polite way possible… I just don’t care. I do feel a bit sorry for whatever girl has fallen into this guy’s trap.

Do you notice he still has to turn it all round to how oh so hard it was for him? How the feminists and ‘alpha men’ just pushed him out so he had no choice but to be an incel? Even now he can’t comprehend that he made a bad choice that in many cases affects women FOR LIFE and look at that honestly.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/11/2022 15:33

I suppose it partly comes down to the goal each party wishes to achieve. If all you want is sex, you can physically force someone to do that. If what you want is love and commitment, you cannot force someone to give you that.

Also incel is probably the wrong term for women because men are not fussy when it comes to sex.

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:35

@Kanaloa
? You don’t choose to be an incel. It means involuntarily celibate.
The choices for an incel are to either accept and live life hoping you’ll one day find a partner or become violent & hateful- as in become a radicalised incel.

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 15:36

Testosterone? Socialisation leaning towards toxic male entitlement?

Yep. That.

You would struggle to use the internet to persuade women to hate men because they have trouble finding one.

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 15:37

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:35

@Kanaloa
? You don’t choose to be an incel. It means involuntarily celibate.
The choices for an incel are to either accept and live life hoping you’ll one day find a partner or become violent & hateful- as in become a radicalised incel.

Or, you know, work on self development and social skills and generally find a sensible route out of their problems?

Lalalaleeloo · 14/11/2022 15:40

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:22

Is there even such thing as a female incel (involuntarily celibate) to begin with?

Yes. There are women who are looked over and rejected and ignored and lonely. They keep it quiet though, they don't go on violent rampages. They might take out their anger and violence on themselves though.

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:41

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 15:37

Or, you know, work on self development and social skills and generally find a sensible route out of their problems?

Exactly. Not all incels hate women or are violent. Being involuntarily celibate isn’t a choice, it’s a situation you find yourself in. The choices are how you cope with it and what you do about it.

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:45

Lalalaleeloo · 14/11/2022 15:40

Yes. There are women who are looked over and rejected and ignored and lonely. They keep it quiet though, they don't go on violent rampages. They might take out their anger and violence on themselves though.

Ive been rejected and ignored, but as a woman I always had the choice to lower my standards if I wanted a ONS or even a FWB. It’s been the same for my friends as well. Have you encountered any women who are involuntarily celibate?

I agree, women in general do not go on violent rampages.

Lalalaleeloo · 14/11/2022 15:48

Have you encountered any women who are involuntarily celibate?

Yes.

Fairislefandango · 14/11/2022 15:56

It surely all just comes down to the fact that men often prioritise the desire to have sex above almost anything else. And then the question is how hard is it really for them to override that inbuilt drive and accept the temporary or potentially permanent lack of a sexual partner. The idea of sex with another person being something you have an inalienable right to seems to be a peculiarly male (and imo abhorrent) view.

GrumpyPanda · 14/11/2022 16:10

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:22

Is there even such thing as a female incel (involuntarily celibate) to begin with?

Weird question. Are you implying any long-term single female only is so by choice? Have a trawl through a couple of weeks worth of the relationships forum in that case.

And for what it's worth the very term "incel" was originally coined by a woman. Obviously without the violence and entitlement, those were later additions.

Tomikka · 14/11/2022 16:15

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:45

Ive been rejected and ignored, but as a woman I always had the choice to lower my standards if I wanted a ONS or even a FWB. It’s been the same for my friends as well. Have you encountered any women who are involuntarily celibate?

I agree, women in general do not go on violent rampages.

“women in general do not go on violent rampages”

Its another generalisation, but women are more likely to conduct ‘traditional’ self harm, but men have been found to put themselves at risk looking for violence - perhaps putting the energy into agression but also going into a situation to get beaten up

There’s also another potential factor that male incels are finding each other online, but in doing so putting themselves in sight of those who will exploit and radicalise them

Dalekjastninerels · 14/11/2022 16:22

I think female incels are more likely to turn inward and think they are ugly and it is their fault for not having a tiny waist or perfect face or whatever else- so it is their fault. Men only want beautiful women and they feel worthless for not looking perfect. On the other hand men will have sex with anyone and how can you be so ugly no man will? So they turn the hatred inward.

Male incels are more likely to turn outward and blame women for rejecting them and be violent. Male incels feel entitled to sex and turn their hatred outward.

Just my two cents

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 16:53

GrumpyPanda · 14/11/2022 16:10

Weird question. Are you implying any long-term single female only is so by choice? Have a trawl through a couple of weeks worth of the relationships forum in that case.

And for what it's worth the very term "incel" was originally coined by a woman. Obviously without the violence and entitlement, those were later additions.

No, am taking it literally as that’s how Incel is defined even when it’s men as they do not even go to prostitutes.

Involuntarily celibate= no sex.

Nothing to do with being single vs in a relationship.

Galaktoboureko · 14/11/2022 17:05
  • It's much harder for a woman to be an involuntary celibate because society conditions men to 'take the lead' and thus a shy female will still be approached even if distinctly average looking.
  • Men have much more testosterone which has been proven to be higher in violent individuals/criminals.
  • The average woman has very little chance of winning a fight with the average man.
AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 17:14

Onnabugeisha · 14/11/2022 15:22

Is there even such thing as a female incel (involuntarily celibate) to begin with?

Certainly - if you are significantly below average, and/or 'too old' and/or 'too fat' men don't even want a ONS with you - even if you are successful and well-off.

However, if you read what male incels post on forums, it isn't that they can't get any sex - it's that they can't get sex with attractive women. They don't believe they should have to 'lower their standards' to sleep with someone 'ugly' or - heaven forbid - fat.

Double-standards.

Discovereads · 14/11/2022 17:18

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request