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Feminism: chat

Why are there no violent femcels?

131 replies

Laneyy · 14/11/2022 11:39

I was watching a documentary about incels last night. It was quite scary how entitled some men feel entitled to sex of course with attractive women like they see on porn. They hammer their faces talk about killing and raping women. I think porn has a lot to answer for the rise in incels, they can't be bothered going out and talking to actual women. Just furiously wanking to women on screen..

Men and women are different it's easy for a female to get a meaningless shag which will probably be terrible but a meaningful relationship can be more difficult. I was pondering many women end up in dead end relationships ,we have a fertility time limit. Many men will waste a woman's time saying later not now until she's no longer fertile taking her chance to have biological children. Women don't then go on a murderous rampage.

OP posts:
AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

I've only looked at the Reddit forums populated by the embittered ones. If there is an outer circle of men who recognise their own limitations and are working on them, good for them (as long as 'working on themselves' doesn't mean studying to be a PUA).

RebulahConundrum · 14/11/2022 17:27

Really hate this idea that there are no female incels and any woman can get it whenever she wants. As a 36 year old female incel, who has always wanted to be in a relationship but is obviously so hideous no man would ever glance at me, I would very much disagree with that. I can't be the only one in the world.

CaveMum · 14/11/2022 17:31

There was an interesting discussion on an episode of The Infinite Monkey Cage where a scientist said male violence cannot be purely attributed to Testosterone - partly because women obviously have testosterone too and also because there seems to be a societal link too.

They explained that the level of violence varies across the world but the difference between male and female violence within each country remains pretty consistent. They compared murder rates in countries and the women from countries with high murder rates were more violent than men from countries with low murder rates, but the difference between men and women within their own countries was the same.

It’s an old episode, from 2016, called Battle of the Sexes. For some reason I can’t get the link to post, but this is a screenshot of the blurb:

Why are there no violent femcels?
NurseBernard · 14/11/2022 17:40

Oh waa, waa, poor incel.

All this, ‘women can go to a bar and have sex whenever they want’. Well, no, not all women can. And those who can, have it with consenting adults.

It’s actually men that can have sex whenever they want. It’s called ‘rape’.

And they expect us to feel sorry for them?

Caveat: I’m talking about incels here, not decent men.

Newlifestartingatlast · 14/11/2022 17:45

Dalekjastninerels · 14/11/2022 16:22

I think female incels are more likely to turn inward and think they are ugly and it is their fault for not having a tiny waist or perfect face or whatever else- so it is their fault. Men only want beautiful women and they feel worthless for not looking perfect. On the other hand men will have sex with anyone and how can you be so ugly no man will? So they turn the hatred inward.

Male incels are more likely to turn outward and blame women for rejecting them and be violent. Male incels feel entitled to sex and turn their hatred outward.

Just my two cents

This.
at either end of my life I was involuntarily celibate
I have always been overweight- shy,self conscious
as young person I struggled to find a boyfriend. I blamed me entirely
as a peri menopausal my ex stopped having sex with-me. ( issues complex due to mental illness). Didn’t volunteer for celibacy before that or after. My sex life stopped when I was in mid 40s. Sure I could have put myself out there, but I was married and his sole carer . Sure, I resented it sometimes , and was frustrated but I didn’t abuse or threaten to murder him. I also continued to blame a very big deal.

since we split up a few years ago I haven’t tried to get into another relationship with a man. I’m overweight and who’d want me? Old grey fat ? Think my attitude has changed though post menopausally. Celibacy doesn’t bother me now- or maybe just got used to it. I just avoid blokes now on the whole that are not part of my family group to not have to deal with their judgement on me in terms of my looks and being a “difficult “ woman.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:09

Handyweatherstation · 14/11/2022 15:12

Interesting post, Liebig, but the question is about why there aren't violent female incels.

And my post is a good explanation for why. Do you consider the route similar to females? Because if it isn’t, there you go.

Think about why men (or women) in undeveloped and ruined nations (or even cities in the West) decide to turn to violent terrorise or organised crime as a way to deal with reality.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:13

Kanaloa · 14/11/2022 15:28

Gosh, in the most polite way possible… I just don’t care. I do feel a bit sorry for whatever girl has fallen into this guy’s trap.

Do you notice he still has to turn it all round to how oh so hard it was for him? How the feminists and ‘alpha men’ just pushed him out so he had no choice but to be an incel? Even now he can’t comprehend that he made a bad choice that in many cases affects women FOR LIFE and look at that honestly.

Cool. How’s ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away working out for you?

You’re precisely the reason this toxic culture is expanding, not contracting.

Remember how effective it was to call Leave voters racist idiots to get them on side? No, me neither.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:15

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 15:37

Or, you know, work on self development and social skills and generally find a sensible route out of their problems?

That sounds like every person a work colleague has had tell her when they found out about her crippling depression.

“Have you tried not being depressed?”

Gee, what a revolutionary approach. Sign me up.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:20

Lalalaleeloo · 14/11/2022 15:40

Yes. There are women who are looked over and rejected and ignored and lonely. They keep it quiet though, they don't go on violent rampages. They might take out their anger and violence on themselves though.

Guess what kills the most men in the UK under 45?

The person themself. Suicide in males is massively elevated, up to four times more than for females.

But I digress. The violence directed outside in these groups is usually far less prevalent given the psychology profile of such males.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 14/11/2022 18:26

Because females are more evolved, we have had to be. We don't have physical strength to fall back on, we have had to find other more advanced ways to resolve our problems.

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 18:28

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:15

That sounds like every person a work colleague has had tell her when they found out about her crippling depression.

“Have you tried not being depressed?”

Gee, what a revolutionary approach. Sign me up.

Whut?

We all have problems, barriers, difficulties etc. Some are worse than others. Turning toxic isn’t the best way of doing that, no matter how dire things are.

Your comparison to depression is so wonky I CBA to engage with it fully but let’s say if I was talking directly to an incel (instead of talking about them which is what I am doing) I would try to help them to take baby steps towards improving their self esteem in the same way I encourage my severely depressed sibling to engage, move, eat fruit etc and other small positive things.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:35

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 18:28

Whut?

We all have problems, barriers, difficulties etc. Some are worse than others. Turning toxic isn’t the best way of doing that, no matter how dire things are.

Your comparison to depression is so wonky I CBA to engage with it fully but let’s say if I was talking directly to an incel (instead of talking about them which is what I am doing) I would try to help them to take baby steps towards improving their self esteem in the same way I encourage my severely depressed sibling to engage, move, eat fruit etc and other small positive things.

Do you genuinely think these people are being properly approached with this help? Ignore the closeted feelings of your typical young male, at least.

Having known men who almost went down this road because of stupid shit on dating apps almost putting them over the edge (“I don’t date short guys”), I see this as precisely the same silent epidemic as the teenage girl self harm one we currently have at the same time. Social media has made this problem exponentially worse lately.

The public image of incels is conflated with alt-right and full on terrorist events now. Which is amusing given we’ve all been told the last few years about mental health being an important thing, yet it seems we only afford compassion for people that tick the correct boxes. And the raging misogyny and violence of some notable incels in the news, has clouded that issue more.

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 18:37

What I think @Liebig is that your impassioned apologia for incels is misplaced.

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 18:46

Having known men who almost went down this road because of stupid shit on dating apps almost putting them over the edge (“I don’t date short guys”)

I agree that's shallow, but women face the same, if not more shallow exclusions than men - men who won't date a woman above a size eight, men in their 50s and above who won't date a woman over 30, men who only want women with long hair. Online dating can be a very toxic place, but as pps have said, women are more likely to blame their own supposed inadequacies and quietly give up.

Galaktoboureko · 14/11/2022 18:46

There was an interesting discussion on an episode of The Infinite Monkey Cage where a scientist said male violence cannot be purely attributed to Testosterone - partly because women obviously have testosterone too and also because there seems to be a societal link too.

But we have like only a tenth of the amount too. And I've read studies which found that higher levels of testosterone make women more violent too.

There's absolutely shitloads of data showing links between testosterone and violence/aggression/criminal behaviour. I've seen it discussed on here at least three times.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 19:03

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 18:37

What I think @Liebig is that your impassioned apologia for incels is misplaced.

You’re right. Fuck those guys and the maybe valid reasoning for why they exist and female variants do not.

CaveMum · 14/11/2022 19:08

@Galaktoboureko I’m not saying it’s not a cause, just saying it’s too simplistic to just pinpoint it all on Testosterone alone.

Liebig · 14/11/2022 19:10

Galaktoboureko · 14/11/2022 18:46

There was an interesting discussion on an episode of The Infinite Monkey Cage where a scientist said male violence cannot be purely attributed to Testosterone - partly because women obviously have testosterone too and also because there seems to be a societal link too.

But we have like only a tenth of the amount too. And I've read studies which found that higher levels of testosterone make women more violent too.

There's absolutely shitloads of data showing links between testosterone and violence/aggression/criminal behaviour. I've seen it discussed on here at least three times.

Testosterone and cultural conditioning even before social media is pretty much why. Ugly, weak, short guys are total dorks and might as well just give up.

At least that’s how modernity treats it now. Imagine the average girl today seeing Instagram models and actual supermodels or starlets. The impact on mental health are well documented in the cohorts that apply to this young dating environment.

But in a reasonable sized town or city, even an average girl will get a proverbial firehose of dicks her way on something like Tinder. And of course, as we all know, if you don’t answer every single brain dead message, you’re trash.

The opposite end is the guys who get no matches at all and see most approaches as being unwelcome.

So you can imagine the fun that comes of the resentment in both sides. I swear it wasn’t as toxic even ten years ago.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 14/11/2022 19:18

Liebig · 14/11/2022 18:13

Cool. How’s ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away working out for you?

You’re precisely the reason this toxic culture is expanding, not contracting.

Remember how effective it was to call Leave voters racist idiots to get them on side? No, me neither.

erm

you seem to be saying that it's down to women to solve the incel problem by dating short men even if that's not their type?

or something?

NurseBernard · 14/11/2022 19:29

Having known men who almost went down this road because of stupid shit on dating apps almost putting them over the edge (“I don’t date short guys”)

What the actual….?!

You think men don’t do this to women, @Liebig…?!

Please……

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 19:39

Liebig · 14/11/2022 19:10

Testosterone and cultural conditioning even before social media is pretty much why. Ugly, weak, short guys are total dorks and might as well just give up.

At least that’s how modernity treats it now. Imagine the average girl today seeing Instagram models and actual supermodels or starlets. The impact on mental health are well documented in the cohorts that apply to this young dating environment.

But in a reasonable sized town or city, even an average girl will get a proverbial firehose of dicks her way on something like Tinder. And of course, as we all know, if you don’t answer every single brain dead message, you’re trash.

The opposite end is the guys who get no matches at all and see most approaches as being unwelcome.

So you can imagine the fun that comes of the resentment in both sides. I swear it wasn’t as toxic even ten years ago.

Do you see what you're doing here, though -

Ugly, weak, short guys are total dorks and might as well just give up

But in a reasonable sized town or city, even an average girl will get a proverbial firehose of dicks her way on something like Tinder.

You're not comparing like for like. In a reasonable sized town or city, an average guy will also get a reasonable amount of matches, just as an average woman will.

An ugly, weak, short guy won't. But nor will an ugly, fat woman, especially if she is the 'wrong' side of 30.

And this false equivalence is what you see all the time on incel forums. The (conventionally) 'ugly' men compare themselves to average women, not their true female equivalents in terms of conventional attractiveness.

Because the 'ugly' women don't exist for them, they will not 'lower their standards' to date them.

IneedanewTV · 14/11/2022 19:40

When I was online dating I got very few responses. I’m older, not traditionally attractive, not massively feminine, no curves. Infact after a few weeks it was silent. So if us women are expected to feel sorry for the short man etc then Forget it. But at least I didn’t threaten to rape men. Instead I found other ways to meet a partner, clubs, meet ups, walking clubs etc. I didn’t look at porn and decide I hated all men. I find it amusing that it’s always women’s fault.

MetellaInHortoEst · 14/11/2022 19:45

IneedanewTV · 14/11/2022 19:40

When I was online dating I got very few responses. I’m older, not traditionally attractive, not massively feminine, no curves. Infact after a few weeks it was silent. So if us women are expected to feel sorry for the short man etc then Forget it. But at least I didn’t threaten to rape men. Instead I found other ways to meet a partner, clubs, meet ups, walking clubs etc. I didn’t look at porn and decide I hated all men. I find it amusing that it’s always women’s fault.

Well said.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 14/11/2022 19:47

also, please never say

'firehose of dicks'

ever, ever again

<shudder>

AndEverWhoKnew · 14/11/2022 19:47

It's about the commodifaction of sex and desire. Steeped in porn culture, incels see women not as people but as objects to have sex with.
Female incels have more to consider because it can't just be about sex. Even an ONS means determining risks regarding safety, pregnancy (depending on age), etc. They can't reduce men to porn stereotypes because they need to risk assess for survival.