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Feminism: chat

Tiny skirts and arsed hanging out

128 replies

mooshed · 07/06/2022 13:46

I know it's always been a thing, why is it? Why do girls want to show their bums? Is it for the boys? And just generally all the makeup and boob jobs etc. Help me understand as my dds skirt is getting shorter each day, still not up to her arse thankfully.

I hate it but I also feel like I'm being a prude or something, they can dress how they want etc but I don't believe this is what they really want, is it? To be looked at as objects?

OP posts:
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PurpleCarpets · 07/06/2022 13:50

In my case it was definitely for the male attention.

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iCorvidae · 07/06/2022 13:55

because they want to

Its not our (your) job to police what they wear

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mooshed · 07/06/2022 13:56

I know it's not my job to police them and I don't comment on anything they wear but it makes me a bit sad.

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mooshed · 07/06/2022 13:57

And I just question why they want to be looked at as sex objects and boys don't.

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RestingMurderousFace · 07/06/2022 13:59

I used to wear really short miniskirts, mainly because I was confident about my legs and hoped that showing them would distract from my face.

Don't think my arse cheeks were ever on display though, that's taking it a bit far!

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jaffacakesareepic · 07/06/2022 14:03

Do you feel the same way when you see topless men walking around (appreciating you may live in a place in the uk where this is less commonplace)

Its just ive never see the same sentiments expressed about topless men - thats its all for the female gaze and they just want to be seen as objects.

And whilst it might be occasionally assumed that men are dressing like that to attract a woman, they are less likely to be considered 'objects'

I used to roll my skirt up at school. Im not saying i wouldnt have minded a bit of appreciation from the guys but i didnt consider myself an object and to be honest i did it more to fit in and be 'one of the girls' than for a boys attention.

Society may consider girls objects for the male gaze but i dont think teenage girls always see themselves that way regardless of how they dress

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FunnyTalks · 07/06/2022 14:04

They're reacting to the world in which they find themselves. Whilst I disagree that this stuff is necessarily empowering, I think any human should be allowed to dress /look how they please. I think it's really important to remember that adult males who choose to sexualise girls, or who exploit girls' sexuality towards their own ends, are the problem. Not the girls themselves, not how they look, not what they're wearing.

I feel sad for girls who feel they always have to wear makeup because effectively boys their own age have more free time and less expenditure by not having these expectations foisted on them. And this inequality can be lifelong.

I feel sad for girls and women who feel they need a boob job too, because of the risks of surgery and problems later and because of the loss of sexual feeling. But I understand the pressures they are reacting to.

We're mammals. A desire for equality doesn't have to negate the desire to be desirable if that makes sense? And I guess the message girls are getting is that heavy make up and fake boobs are desirable.

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SpaceJamtart · 07/06/2022 14:06

Certain skirt lengths just look better.
I used to wear tiny skirts to school, didnt care about boys just liked the way it made my legs look. I am quite short so high on the waist and legs made my legs look longer.
Not for boys, honestly just thought it looked nicer, Ive looked back on the pictures of me in knee length and then mini skirts and I was right they looked nicer short. It suited me proportionally and went well as a 'look' with my oversized blazer

Its not always seedy and sad and for male gaze, its nice to look nice it makes you feel confident.

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justamushypea · 07/06/2022 14:06

If you find out then let me know! My DSD has rather large boobs and they are always on show in tight little crop tops. It's not flattering, and looks so uncomfortable for her and she must be freezing cold most of the time.
I know in an ideal world we should tell them they can wear what they want etc, but I really doubt it really is what they want to wear, it's about fitting in with their friends and yes, attracting the boys.
I'm hoping she will grow out of it and develop her own style, she is a beautiful intelligent girl and should be appreciated for that rather than a pair of boobs and an arse.

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GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 07/06/2022 14:08

It's unfeminist or at least unsisterly to say it, but I feel the same. See so many girls in school uniforms with the tiniest of skirts and it makes me feel a bit sickened, really, that they feel they have to show so much flesh to be...what? Fashionable? Attractive? Popular?

It genuinely wasn't the same when I was a teen in the 90s. We wore dungarees, baggy combats, hoodies. Yes, we'd dress up more for a night out on the pull, but not for just going to school or college. It makes sad that young women's identities have become so sexualised, one way or another.

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SallyWD · 07/06/2022 14:09

jaffacakesareepic · 07/06/2022 14:03

Do you feel the same way when you see topless men walking around (appreciating you may live in a place in the uk where this is less commonplace)

Its just ive never see the same sentiments expressed about topless men - thats its all for the female gaze and they just want to be seen as objects.

And whilst it might be occasionally assumed that men are dressing like that to attract a woman, they are less likely to be considered 'objects'

I used to roll my skirt up at school. Im not saying i wouldnt have minded a bit of appreciation from the guys but i didnt consider myself an object and to be honest i did it more to fit in and be 'one of the girls' than for a boys attention.

Society may consider girls objects for the male gaze but i dont think teenage girls always see themselves that way regardless of how they dress

I disagree. I think women actually get away with wearing more revealing clothes than men. If I go out on a Saturday night I see a lot of breasts and arse on display! I'm not judging, I couldn't care less what they wear. If it makes them feel sexy or confident then fine. However, men don't draw attention to their attributes in the same way. Can you imagine a man wearing trousers so tight that you could see the outline of his penis and testicles? I'm not talking about the normal trouser bulge that's unavoidable but something more explicit. People would think it was gross - not empowering! And yes I've seen many people tutting and commenting when a man walks around topless. Just yesterday a man was told to cover up when he went topless in to the supermarket.

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Triffid1 · 07/06/2022 14:10

OP - I spend SOOO much time thinking about this issue and going round in circles

Of course girls should wear whatever the like with no comment from the rest of us....but also, why is it that "empowering" girls requires insanely short skirts, boob tubes and trousers that are sprayed on!?

The closest I've come to a conclusion so far is that we can't and mustn't comment or judge girls for their choices.

BUT, that it's totally okay for us to continue to push back at a societal level to say that this shouldn't be the norm. Because much as girls THINK they're making these decisions for themselves, they're not - it's part of a much bigger subtle message they get about how to dress practically from babyhood.

Case in point: girls shorts. They are made and cut shorter throughout a girl's life. Clearly that 18 month old is not making a choice of her own. Horrifyingly, I also discovered a couple of years ago that while boys and girls at this age are generally similar in size, girls clothes are based on smaller waists... so as parents and young girls we're already agonising because our girls are in clothes that are too many sizes up. Age 3, DD was quite chunky admittedly. I bought her shorts by eye... they turned out to be size 10. They were, admittedly, baggy and loose and long but she wore them (v v good elasticised waist). She STILL wears them, and she's 7 now. The remain her longest shorts....

Similarly, she spotted a pair of PJs she had to have the other day - they glow in the dark Grin . They are, as it turns out, boy PJs (blue, with sea animals on - so clearly boy). They are her absolute favourite short sleeve pyjamas because the shorts are long enough they don't go up her butt crack or between her labia....

At DS' toddler sports group in the middle of winter, I looked up one day and clocked that all the boys were wearing baggy trackies (DS' were lined, I'm guessing the others' were too). The girls were all wearing leggings..... There was NOTHING sexualised about any of the girls, but I had to ask myself what we were telling this 3 year old girls about dressing.

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Dolares · 07/06/2022 14:12

I really don't know OP but my 4 year old loudly said "i can see her bum" when we were walking behind a teenager on the way to school one morning! Mortifying for me and the girl. But it was true.

I couldn't care less what anyone decides to wear but you've got to question your decision if younger children can clearly see a part of your body that they are being taught is private.

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Triffid1 · 07/06/2022 14:15

DD chooses her clothes and I mostly have no input. but to continue with my point re leggings above - I only allow her to wear leggings and a t-shirt for sports-related activities. Otherwise, she must put a dress/skirt over, wear shorts/trackies/trousers etc. It's my line in the sand.

The best thing I'm seeing currently is that DS is in year 6. I've noticed at casual events or when bumping into the girls in town that the current fashion is 3/4 jeans style, high waisted and then straight down to a wide cut off mid calf. Makes me so happy.

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doadeer · 07/06/2022 14:17

Isn't every generation like this? I'm early 30s and I remember this being the same when I was young.

I agree about how disgraceful girls clothes are. At the park the other day I saw a really athletic, fit young girl about 10 having such a brilliant time on the climbing frame and monkey bars, she didn't have a care in the world how she looked. When puberty really gets underway I see so many girls change. I know someone who teaches yoga in secondary school and many of the girls are so self conscious they can't even stand up straight. Likewise I see so many teens who look so so uncomfortable in what they are wearing, skin tight, scratchy.

But on flip side teens near me seem to be wearing really baggy pants so this is a plus. Far more of a unisex look.

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jaffacakesareepic · 07/06/2022 14:17

SallyWD · 07/06/2022 14:09

I disagree. I think women actually get away with wearing more revealing clothes than men. If I go out on a Saturday night I see a lot of breasts and arse on display! I'm not judging, I couldn't care less what they wear. If it makes them feel sexy or confident then fine. However, men don't draw attention to their attributes in the same way. Can you imagine a man wearing trousers so tight that you could see the outline of his penis and testicles? I'm not talking about the normal trouser bulge that's unavoidable but something more explicit. People would think it was gross - not empowering! And yes I've seen many people tutting and commenting when a man walks around topless. Just yesterday a man was told to cover up when he went topless in to the supermarket.

I wasnt saying that women dont wear more revealing clothes, I was questioning the short skirt = object for the male gaze, topless man = inaapropriate but not 'object'for female gaze, its more the reaction than the action i was talking about

Admittedly i lived in an area for years where topless men in summer on the highstreet and in the supermarket was the norm and this isnt the case across the whole uk so my experience differs to many people

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Sparklybutold · 07/06/2022 14:21

@mooshed

I think a lot of it is socialization in what a girl/woman is. A few days ago someone posted a link of a bat costume for kids - the boys was covered up, whereas the girls was shorter with ripped tights and make up. The kids were no older than 8. Th sexualisation of clothes starts from babies. Baby girls - lots of leggings, whereas boys have lots of joggrs to choose from.

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dummyd · 07/06/2022 14:22

Do you feel the same way when you see topless men walking around (appreciating you may live in a place in the uk where this is less commonplace)

Someone always says this, but women aren't looking at a topless man and getting a boner, wanting to shag. They don't look at him and judge his sexuality. It's just not comparable. Not really expressing an opinion about it, just saying.

I don't wear short skirt but do go bra less, not judging, but it's not the same as a bloke doing it because women don't objectify men in the same way.

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Triffid1 · 07/06/2022 14:25

Sparklybutold · 07/06/2022 14:21

@mooshed

I think a lot of it is socialization in what a girl/woman is. A few days ago someone posted a link of a bat costume for kids - the boys was covered up, whereas the girls was shorter with ripped tights and make up. The kids were no older than 8. Th sexualisation of clothes starts from babies. Baby girls - lots of leggings, whereas boys have lots of joggrs to choose from.

Yup.

Also check out PE kit. Girls are short skorts or shorts or tight leggings. Boys wear long shorts or trackies....

I mean technically, it's unisex and DD goes in usually wearing black trackies or boys shorts. But most of the girls will be wearing black leggings or the tiny shorts/skorts.

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jaffacakesareepic · 07/06/2022 14:29

dummyd · 07/06/2022 14:22

Do you feel the same way when you see topless men walking around (appreciating you may live in a place in the uk where this is less commonplace)

Someone always says this, but women aren't looking at a topless man and getting a boner, wanting to shag. They don't look at him and judge his sexuality. It's just not comparable. Not really expressing an opinion about it, just saying.

I don't wear short skirt but do go bra less, not judging, but it's not the same as a bloke doing it because women don't objectify men in the same way.

But that my point (im not explaining it well i have a migraine)

The op is saying that the girls want to be seen as objects for men. My point is that the op is seeing them that way but wouldnt see men in the same way. But that doesnt mean that the girls want to be seen that way, its just an assumption that they do.

I agree with not wanting girls walking around with their arses hanging out because its inappropriate, in the same way I think it should be inappropriate to have to stand next to a topless man in tescos.

But i dont think its okay not not want girls to walk around in shorts because men might objectify them. I think we (e.g. society) should just bring men up not to objectify them

Although im pretty sure if i posted a topless photo of jason momoa on aibu i would disprove the not wanting to shag theory ๐Ÿ˜

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justamushypea · 07/06/2022 14:34

Do you feel the same way when you see topless men walking around (appreciating you may live in a place in the uk where this is less commonplace)
I think men walking about shirtless is nasty. It gives me the ick. But that's just me ๐Ÿ˜‚

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Swayingpalmtrees · 07/06/2022 14:39

In my case it was absolutely for male attention because I had no love or attention from my father, the next best thing was to find someone else to 'love' me. It gave me a weird thrill to watch and play with their reaction and realise I could stop traffic literally with certain outfits.

I am mortified to think of this now, and feel sorry for the young girl I once was, so desperate for someone to show me affection I was prepared to do that. I often wonder when I see girls do it today if it is the same reason or just for fashion reasons. My own dds are more secure than me and prefer over sized baggy clothes.

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Swayingpalmtrees · 07/06/2022 14:43

I used to wear an almost see thru white dress, so my friends and I could add up how many arguments we would cause with the couples in cars! Teenage girls can be truly heartless. It was a blood sport - and cheap entertainment on a boring walk home on a Thursday evening.

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SallyWD · 07/06/2022 14:44

jaffacakesareepic · 07/06/2022 14:17

I wasnt saying that women dont wear more revealing clothes, I was questioning the short skirt = object for the male gaze, topless man = inaapropriate but not 'object'for female gaze, its more the reaction than the action i was talking about

Admittedly i lived in an area for years where topless men in summer on the highstreet and in the supermarket was the norm and this isnt the case across the whole uk so my experience differs to many people

Yes I do agree with some of what you said actually. Men aren't objectified in the same way as women but I do think thibk this is because of the difference between male and female sexuality. Men are more visual so have a tenancy to objectify someone - seeing body parts rather than the human being. Don't get me wrong, I know women can be visual too and I certainly admire the bodies of some men! However it's too a lesser extent, I think. There's often (not always, of course) an emotional element to female desire too. I definitely agree that men should be raised not to see women as sexual objects. However, there's also a part of me that feels we're all just animals. Men are always going to be attracted to/aroused by the sight of breasts, legs, arse etc. I don't think that can be socialised out of them. I realise this perspective might be unpopular.

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Irishfarmer · 07/06/2022 14:46

Arse dangling out the bottom of shorts really does not do much for most women. It's not something new. It was a thing when I was 20, 10 years ago and living in Oz. But driving thro a town over the weekend, when it was cold and wet seeing girls wearing high waisted baggy shorts which I could see their arse cheeks in just didn't look good. Now maybe I am a bitter, 8 month preg 30 yr old who knows!!

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