Tiny skirts and arsed hanging out

[mooshed]

I know it's always been a thing, why is it? Why do girls want to show their bums? Is it for the boys? And just generally all the makeup and boob jobs etc. Help me understand as my dds skirt is getting shorter each day, still not up to her arse thankfully.

I hate it but I also feel like I'm being a prude or something, they can dress how they want etc but I don't believe this is what they really want, is it? To be looked at as objects?

It genuinely wasn't the same when I was a teen in the 90s.

It was same when I was a teen in the 90s. I rolled my skirt up because (virtually) everybody else did.

Is that why I could only buy very short shorts or tight trousers/leggings for my 2 year old daughter?

No, that's because you're shopping in the wrong shop.

I think mostly teenagers just feel pretty ugly/clumsy and they want to look "nice". Nice might mean longer-looking legs (I think we all know that shorter skirt = more legs on show), smaller waist from tight clothes, or "drawing attention to your best features" as magazines used to tell us. In my case that meant unbuttoning school shirt to show off cleavage (a bit). For my leggier friends it meant skirts rolled up. My mum is in her 70s and says they did the same at an all-girls school miles from anywhere.

It's wrong to think it's about trying to draw the attention of all men/boys. It might be to draw the attention of one or two men or boys they fancy. We've all done that as adults too right? I remember wearing heels to work because I fancied a colleague. But in general I think it's about trying to overcome what is an ugly outfit (school uniform) and make yourself look as "good" as possible according to your and your peers idea of what that is.

Obviously what constitutes "good" comes from the world around us e.g. the tighter/shorter clothes our culture assigns to girls and women. It's super problematic to push those on children.

You can bet your (hidden) arse that if boys thought they could become more good-looking/popular by wearing v tight trousers or showing off their butt cheeks, they would. Remember when boys used to have their jeans hanging below their pants?

In some cases it may be to get male attention.

But in most cases it's 'peacocking' to other girls - or at least 'fitting in'. I think that this is the case with obviously visible boob jobs, lip plumping, false tan, nails etc. also. It says, 'look at me, I've got that difficult-to-achieve long swishy hair / long tanned legs / nice cleavage / whatever'.

It's important that girls in particular know about what a 'sexualised' look is. Is how you are dressing highlighting your sex characteristics? And is that what you want? What might happen because of that? Do we think that's a good / bad thing generally in society? What will you do as a response to that? This is much better than surely just 'telling' girls you can't wear this, that or the other. It's possible to be fashionable and 'in' with the boys / girls / whatever without being sexualised.

And YY to previous poster. If you can only find 'sexualised' clothing for your DC, keep looking. I told my DC when young that the only true girls / boys clothes was underwear, and went from there.

It's important that girls in particular know about what a 'sexualised' look is. Is how you are dressing highlighting your sex characteristics? And is that what you want? What might happen because of that? Do we think that's a good / bad thing generally in society?

I'm not sure I agree with this. What might happen "because of that" is people might display awful behaviour towards you, but then people (men) might do that to you anyway even if you're in a baggy trackie and trainers. Connecting women and girls' clothing and how people behave towards them a) doesn't make sense b) encourages blaming the victim. I remember reading a blog once that said no one has a right to harass, grope or rape you even if you walk down the street stark naked. That's true.

@Irishfarmer

Heck it was a thing in the 1970’s and perhaps a little earlier.

@EnterACloud I agree with you.

People should be able to dress how they want.

But the reality is, whoever we are, and however we dress, we are 'sending a message' to others about ourselves in some way in our choice of dress.

That's why I say - it's important to educate young people about the 'message' that they are sending when they dress in any sort of way. And to get them to think about what that means. And how likely, if at all, something bad may come of it. And whether that 'risk assessment', if you like, then leads them to make different choices about their dress. It's very different to just telling a young person to dress a certain way (or not).

@Enny70 really short skirts or actually seeing arse cheeks? I can't say I noticed it ever in Ireland until recently. And it was not a thing when I went to school in England in 2000s to show off arse cheeks. I did roll up my skirt yes and wore short skirts and prob did have older people say 'young ones these days' but I don't remember anyone actually showing off their arse cheeks like cleavage

Me too. We all did, And it worked a treat 😁

I wore a long skirt and docs. Always had a boyfriend, hated the idea of being viewed sexually. Interesting to hear your thoughts. I just hate the idea of men perving at my DDs. So grim.

@Irishfarmer

Nope actual arse cheeks - I’ve seen cheek hanging out of hot pants and jean shorts in 70’s movies and shows - and not ones that were supposedly sexy either, just normal teenage outfits.

And I was at school in the 90’s and things were very much about dressing skimpy like Britney, Christina Aguilera etc. there was even a trend for showing a little thong above the pant line which I saw a few girls attempt at school (not me thankfully). But it was definitely something that would get shown to boys on occasion.

I don’t know what 90’s you grew up in but I remember it being highly sexualised for teens.

Are the people who did do this as teens the type of people who wear a lot of make up still and maybe alter or take a lot of care of their appearance? Just wondering if it's something that isn't just a teenage thing ultimately and those people always seek outsiders validation

I was in London today (don't often go) and noticed how fast women walk now that they are in trainers and saw almost 0 heels. So somethings are improving.

Are the people who did do this as teens the type of people who wear a lot of make up still and maybe alter or take a lot of care of their appearance?

Still? I rarely wear any make up at all. Never have.

@PurpleCarpets

No girls do not wear skimpy clothes only to attract boys else no lesbians would do this.

Reflecting on my own teenage years, I was oblivious to how my choice of clothing may be admired or not by men. I chose clothes that I liked. I still do. I find the assumption that men are my chief concern when I choose my clothes to be bewildering.

See I think pervy men perve no matter what a woman wears and decent men don’t. I have observed men sizing up my 4yo niece wearing a smocked dress. That says everything about them and nothing about my niece.

Yeah I never get what is empowering about wearing a skirt so short it shows your knickers or these type of shorts where half of your backside is actual showing.

Looks uncomfortable as hell to me, doesn't really look that good and is likely to get you the wrong type of make attention.

I can't help feeling a little bit sad when I see that.

Of course we want to say women should be able to wear whatever they want but equally I don't see anything to think that maybe some of them need to have a think as to why they equate being attractive/desirable with looking like a Kardashian or a dancer in a Meghan Thee Stallion video and whether this is really being yourself or trying to compete with the images you see on social media/TV/the media in general.

These famous women are clever entertainers and know how to use their looks in part to make money but that's not ''real life'', they have body guards, taxis and the power to keep themselves safe. That unfortunately does not apply to average girl on a night out...

I got more confident about my body and what I want to wear as I grew older and less concerned about pleasing men or worrying about being ''sexy'', I dress for myself first and I understand that being sexy does not actually mean wearing as little as possible and not being able to walk because of your heels....

I also think this is a very British thing to wear these type of clothes especially on night outs. Very different in France, Italy or The Netherlands I would say.

@Whitehorsegirl

Its definetly not just British and is very much an Italian thing as well, don’t know about France but probably. It is also an American thing and an Australian thing.

Off the main topic, but I don’t think topless men in the streets are doing it to appeal to women. I see it more as claiming public space as their own, like playing loud music on the bus “I’ll treat this place as if it were my own private space and everyone else can lump it.” Totally different from girls in skimpy clothes, more like dogs pissing to mark their territory.

whoever we are, and however we dress, we are 'sending a message' to others about ourselves in some way in our choice of dress.

yes and the message is, I like these clothes. That’s it. I understand where you’re coming from and the fear behind it, of course I do. We all want to prevent women and girls coming to harm. But the zero tolerance attitude which is emerging now of defying poor behaviour from men regardless of the clothing girls were IS going to create change, it’s the only thing that can.

Claiming that clothing “sends a message” presumably something like “you can stare at/touch me” to all and sundry is bananas. We have words to communicate messages and we don’t need to act like we’re in the 19th century navy using a system of obscure flags and semaphore.

Clothing choices are made for a whole array of different reasons from fitting in with a group to emulating someone famous to attracting the same or opposite sex. But it’s not a “message” that can or should ever be mistaken for either a) saying what sort of person you are or b) giving others permission to act badly towards you. By warning girls of this we’re perpetuating this very idea that we hate.

Also just to say again - why can’t we distinguish between attracting “a” man/boy or a select group (eg “those fit Lads in year 12”) and trying to attract EVERY man. If I go out to meet my OH for dinner wearing a tight dress and showing cleavage, that’s for me to feel good in and him to like the look of, it’s not to lure the sleazy man on the bus or my next door neighbour into sex. Another reason why the “clothes as sexual message” thing is a stupid stupid thing that needs to end.

@PurpleParrotfish

I think your overthinking it, in reality they just go topless because it’s hot or they think they have good muscles and look cool. Unlike women they don’t think about what people think of them wearing little beacause there is no danger. I doubt there’s any sense of wanting to own space or anything, they really simply don’t care and do whatever they feel like.

I think this was s a really good point. Clothing has an audience - most women don't appreciate every man leering.

However, clothes definitely do send a message. A woman who is fully covered in a niqab very clearly doesn't want any male attention. A woman in a short skirt is open to some male attention - but not all. And that's where I think you make a good point.

Of course, those types of men who prowl the street hitting on random women have no particular preferences. Being female is about enough, so it can't really be prevented. I never wore short clothes but was stopped all the time by men when I was 14-17 so 🤷🏼‍♀️

@EnterACloud

But that does mean clothes are for a sexual message. Just because you intend it to be for one person or a select group, that hardly mean other groups won’t react the same way and not be attracted because of the intention in your head. That’s not excusing harassment but you can’t expect only the men you want to notice you to notice you if your doing something to attract them, as why wouldn’t other men find it attractive too?

I'm never convinced by the arguments that they're dressing to please themselves. Girls at the local high school wear their skirts pretty much barely covering their arses and they walk along with a sort of shuffle, one hand continually pulling down on their skirt so it doesn't actually ride up above their knicker line. Surely, unless you're trying to get noticed by the boys, you'd wear something you were actually comfortable in?

But what would I know as a fifty something with zero interest in clothes.