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Amber Heard&Johnny Depp verdict

1000 replies

Miscfeminista · 31/05/2022 14:28

Continuation of previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863

Speculations on verdict, news related to it, insights into specifics of legal matters, opinions and impressions…let’s keep it going and see how verdict finds us >>>>>>>>>>

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IrisVersicolor · 01/06/2022 23:46

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RoseslnTheHospital · 01/06/2022 23:48

So one woman is a liar. So what? Yet people seem to be wanting to crucify her for bringing genuine victims into disrepute. Yet when men lose cases like this no one cares in the slightest and they aren't crucified for damaging real victims. That's a symptom of deep misogyny in the societies in which this happens.

It's not about believing Heard or believing Depp. But, you know, rates of false allegations of domestic violence and rape are no more significant than they are for other crimes. So when a women says she is a victim of domestic abuse or sexual violence, the very large likelihood is that she is.

karenm51 · 01/06/2022 23:49

puffalo · 01/06/2022 23:03

JD’s reputation isn’t done for- he will be back on top in no time. He’s a talented actor who has grown a huge fanbase, especially with a younger audience, over the past few weeks. Actors with worse scandals have made comebacks- he definitely will, too.

However, there is a point I would like to make, regarding these JD/AH threads (some of which have been deleted). There are so many comments where posters say something along the lines of “they’re both as bad as each other, both of them are awful”, etc.

It seems to me that these posters are almost annoyed he “won” the lawsuit? I can’t imagine for a second if it was the other way round anyone would be saying that. The threads would be full of support for her, saying how she was a victim of such an awful man. No one would blame her for taking drugs, drinking excessively, etc.

Yes, he clearly suffers from substance abuse. Most actors/celebrities do- it kind of goes with the territory of being famous. The relationship was evidently toxic.

However, he absolutely did the right thing by bringing this to court. She obliterated his career with lies after lies after lies. He absolutely needed to clear his name for the sake of himself and his family.

She is an absolutely awful, evil woman. She used him for monetary gain and trailed his name through the mud when it didn’t work out for her. She lied repeatedly and made an absolutely mockery of DV victims across the globe. She promised she’d donate money to two different charities then kept it all for herself. She acted (badly) throughout the entire trial. There wasn’t a single point in the trial where I felt empathy or sympathy for her. No one came and supported her, other than her sister who didn’t even look like she wanted to be there.

None of this would have happened if they’d just divorced amicably and they both moved on. She kept going back for more and more- she wanted more fame, more sympathy, more money. She got greedy and it bit her on the arse.

The verdict today was fair. Her career being over is absolutely deserved.

I am a woman and I will always support women, but I refuse to support anyone who thinks it’s appropriate to lie about DV for their own gain. It’s absolutely disgusting. It doesn’t matter if you’re a woman or not.

I also don’t feel bad for her lawyers, either. They knew who they were taking on. Amber went through enough teams beforehand; there were plenty of red flags. They came hugely unprepared, and made mistakes I wouldn’t expect to see from someone who had just passed their bar exams. Objecting to your own question? Saying “I’m trying… I’m trying” in the middle of questioning? Constantly objecting like a broken record with absolutely no basis? Wasting hours and hours of time on absolute nonsense (ie asking a man about every single makeup product a woman might be wearing on her face?)

JD’s team were incredible. Very talented, professional but still managed to come across as likeable to the general public. Camille, Ben and the team did an astounding job and I hope this win brings them further success for the future. It was a masterclass.

Every word of this.

hillyholman · 01/06/2022 23:54

puffalo · 01/06/2022 23:03

JD’s reputation isn’t done for- he will be back on top in no time. He’s a talented actor who has grown a huge fanbase, especially with a younger audience, over the past few weeks. Actors with worse scandals have made comebacks- he definitely will, too.

However, there is a point I would like to make, regarding these JD/AH threads (some of which have been deleted). There are so many comments where posters say something along the lines of “they’re both as bad as each other, both of them are awful”, etc.

It seems to me that these posters are almost annoyed he “won” the lawsuit? I can’t imagine for a second if it was the other way round anyone would be saying that. The threads would be full of support for her, saying how she was a victim of such an awful man. No one would blame her for taking drugs, drinking excessively, etc.

Yes, he clearly suffers from substance abuse. Most actors/celebrities do- it kind of goes with the territory of being famous. The relationship was evidently toxic.

However, he absolutely did the right thing by bringing this to court. She obliterated his career with lies after lies after lies. He absolutely needed to clear his name for the sake of himself and his family.

She is an absolutely awful, evil woman. She used him for monetary gain and trailed his name through the mud when it didn’t work out for her. She lied repeatedly and made an absolutely mockery of DV victims across the globe. She promised she’d donate money to two different charities then kept it all for herself. She acted (badly) throughout the entire trial. There wasn’t a single point in the trial where I felt empathy or sympathy for her. No one came and supported her, other than her sister who didn’t even look like she wanted to be there.

None of this would have happened if they’d just divorced amicably and they both moved on. She kept going back for more and more- she wanted more fame, more sympathy, more money. She got greedy and it bit her on the arse.

The verdict today was fair. Her career being over is absolutely deserved.

I am a woman and I will always support women, but I refuse to support anyone who thinks it’s appropriate to lie about DV for their own gain. It’s absolutely disgusting. It doesn’t matter if you’re a woman or not.

I also don’t feel bad for her lawyers, either. They knew who they were taking on. Amber went through enough teams beforehand; there were plenty of red flags. They came hugely unprepared, and made mistakes I wouldn’t expect to see from someone who had just passed their bar exams. Objecting to your own question? Saying “I’m trying… I’m trying” in the middle of questioning? Constantly objecting like a broken record with absolutely no basis? Wasting hours and hours of time on absolute nonsense (ie asking a man about every single makeup product a woman might be wearing on her face?)

JD’s team were incredible. Very talented, professional but still managed to come across as likeable to the general public. Camille, Ben and the team did an astounding job and I hope this win brings them further success for the future. It was a masterclass.

Well said

AdamRyan · 01/06/2022 23:55

Jollyandbright · 01/06/2022 22:57

The thing is it’s not about whether you believe AH or JD
Its not about whether you like AH or JD
Its not about who you think is lying or abusive.

She made very damaging statements about him, it was clear they were about him.
Free speech isn’t about being able to say whatever the fuck you like without consequences.
If she was prepared to make those kind of accusations publicly, in one of the biggest newspapers in the USA, she should have had the evidence to back up her claims,
If you say something damaging without being able to prove what you say is true it’s defamation, that’s the law.

If she had any definitive proof he abused her physically or sexually we would have seen it.

She clearly proved he was verbally abusive, but she claimed he was physically and sexually abusive, which she couldn’t prove.
So the statements were defamatory.

How do you "prove" someone is sexually or physically abusive, when by their nature those crimes happen behind closed doors?

Birdie746 · 01/06/2022 23:56

Always supported Jess but she's way off base with this one. It's actually made me really question her credibility and her possible agenda. AH is a woke handmaiden tied up with the aclu, the majority of the people supporting her bs are woke types.. for a reason.

puffalo · 02/06/2022 00:06

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Well considering I’ve been a victim of SA and
was in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship for several years, I think I am more than capable of having a viewpoint on the matter.

She was a pretty awful actress (I did have laugh when they tried to compare her to Zendaya at one point, though, very optimistic thinking there) so it isn’t a stretch to imagine her marrying someone like JD as a way to improve her own career prospects.

She is a liar. She lied under oath several times. That is proven. And going back at JD for 100 million definitely comes across as gold digger behaviour to me.

I think people would have felt much more empathy for her if she didn’t lie about things that would easily be proven as lies, and actually donated the money she “pledged” she would. The case could have been very different.

HRTQueen · 02/06/2022 00:14

many of us have been the victims of abuse

I have also worked in dv

i am well aware that victims react differently, abusers don’t not all follow the same pattern though non seem to take any responsibility for their actions or the wrong in their life

people wouldn’t have felt more empathy for AH because they have already forgiven and excused JD and his vile aggressive views on women that is what such high celebrity status allows men to do we see it time and time again

regardless of anyone’s opinion on if he is guilty or not it’s there in black and white his deep rooted vile misogynistic views but that’s ok as he is so nice in other ways 🙄

iPud · 02/06/2022 00:20

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toblerhone · 02/06/2022 00:27

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iPud · 02/06/2022 00:45

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Yes, true. I followed the case when it was in the UK, and having watched the videos made by a YouTuber (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmE_N_OOnWLGXEzAHMK7DipzrZCZKrQS1) and it was abundantly clear the whole thing was a set up by AH and her freeloading mates to rip him off/advance her career.
It is embarrassing to me that people blindly just believe her because she is a woman. I have been reading up on narcissism and it is obvious she ticks most of, if not all of the boxes. I watched much of this recent trial, and found her and her remaining free-loading mates totally unbelievable. The evidence showed her guilt too.
She lies and lies, and even when caught out in provable lies, doubles down. e.g. the donated vs pledge nonsense.

Varietyplaza · 02/06/2022 00:46

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Aquafizzle · 02/06/2022 00:50

I believe the right verdict was reached.

The evidence and facts showed her to be abusive, a liar and a narcissist.

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 00:52

This result terrifies me.

For every single time I've heard a survivor of DV say they feared not being believed. People are holding up Heard as an example of "why we can't believe women..." and it's becoming an echo chamber. People already look for enough excuses for that.

For every time I've heard of an abuser trying to make their victim appear crazy. Depp's team just laid out how to do that.

And already, we have Marilyn Manson lining up to take Evan Rachel Wood to court for defamation of character. Regardless of what you believe after this trial, or if you've taken sides, the fact this can and will be weaponised by abusers is terrifying.

iPud · 02/06/2022 00:55

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 00:52

This result terrifies me.

For every single time I've heard a survivor of DV say they feared not being believed. People are holding up Heard as an example of "why we can't believe women..." and it's becoming an echo chamber. People already look for enough excuses for that.

For every time I've heard of an abuser trying to make their victim appear crazy. Depp's team just laid out how to do that.

And already, we have Marilyn Manson lining up to take Evan Rachel Wood to court for defamation of character. Regardless of what you believe after this trial, or if you've taken sides, the fact this can and will be weaponised by abusers is terrifying.

Well the flip side of that is that our innocent boys stand a better chance of not being automatically assumed to be guilty. I am very glad of that.

iPud · 02/06/2022 00:59

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I wasn't a fan or not, of his (and her, I'd never heard of). I'd only ever seen him in the Pirates franchise, and the chocolate films (Chocolat and Willy Wonka). Since the case in the UK, I binge-watched him in whatever was free on Netflix/Prime, and have really enjoyed most of his films/TV work. I really hope he goes back to making films after this.

HRTQueen · 02/06/2022 01:00

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 00:52

This result terrifies me.

For every single time I've heard a survivor of DV say they feared not being believed. People are holding up Heard as an example of "why we can't believe women..." and it's becoming an echo chamber. People already look for enough excuses for that.

For every time I've heard of an abuser trying to make their victim appear crazy. Depp's team just laid out how to do that.

And already, we have Marilyn Manson lining up to take Evan Rachel Wood to court for defamation of character. Regardless of what you believe after this trial, or if you've taken sides, the fact this can and will be weaponised by abusers is terrifying.

I agree with your post completely unsoftenedorange

the claims she has done more damage for abuse victims is exactly what would be said from a misogynistic view point woman can’t be believed just look at Amber Heard

it’s utter nonsense. The reason this trial is so damaging is because it’s allowed the full force of misogyny fuelled by the right to perpetuate the notion women are not to be believed

iPud · 02/06/2022 01:02

HRTQueen · 02/06/2022 01:00

I agree with your post completely unsoftenedorange

the claims she has done more damage for abuse victims is exactly what would be said from a misogynistic view point woman can’t be believed just look at Amber Heard

it’s utter nonsense. The reason this trial is so damaging is because it’s allowed the full force of misogyny fuelled by the right to perpetuate the notion women are not to be believed

Not ALL women, and not just automatically believed.

What was JD supposed to do? Leave her lies unchallenged? He lost six years of work because of her. The stress to him and his family must have been awful. This is AH's doing. Her fault.

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 01:12

puffalo · 01/06/2022 23:34

I’d be much more interested in sharing insights on a case that happened locally to me several years ago.

Woman claimed she had been raped in a local park close to a university which caused huge alarm and concern in the area. Man in question was charged. However, she later admitted she had made the entire story up and what had actually happened was she had consensual sex with two different men on the alleged night. He was released, she was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

But yes, we should believe all women and let an innocent man rot in jail and have his life ruined because women. This stuff happens more than we think. Every victim deserves to have their cases investigated, properly, regardless on whether they’re male or female.

"More than we think".

What happens "more than we think", @Puffalo, is rapists walking free. Hell, most of the time, rapists never set foot in a police station.

Around 2% of all allegations of rape are "false" allegations, and this includes incidents where people report an incident where they believe someone else has been raped.

Only 10% of all rapes are reported. Of the rapes that are reported, only around 1.3% of these result in the suspect being charged. But sure, let's focus on the small number of false allegations, and ignore the fact that most rapists are never even charged, let alone convicted.

Cases are investigated. Thoroughly. Tediously so. And then the survivors are told that they can't directly discuss their cases in therapy, even if their therapist provides specialist counselling. They can talk about their thoughts and feelings, but they can't mention anything in their witness statement. Then they find out that any notes their therapist makes can be used as evidence in court. Or that their therapist can be called up as a witness. It's rare, but it happens. A lot of rape counselling organisations have a "no notes" policy for this very reason, but hell. Knowing your own therapist could be used against you? In the very trial you need their support to get through?... And let's not even start on the wait time for a case to go to court. It's shockingly common for a survivor to finish therapy a long, long time before they even receive a date for their case to be heard at court. And that's before we even consider how many cases are dropped for a "lack of evidence." Or how many cases are withdrawn because the survivor feels they can't face the trial. Or even the number of cases that are labelled as "false allegations" as a result of police bias.

Because that happens too.

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 01:14

iPud · 02/06/2022 00:55

Well the flip side of that is that our innocent boys stand a better chance of not being automatically assumed to be guilty. I am very glad of that.

The "false allegation" rate for rape and domestic violence cases is 2%.

If you think "innocent boys" are automatically assumed to be guilty, you're not paying attention.

Varietyplaza · 02/06/2022 01:19

This result terrifies me.

Why? She acted like a pork chop on the stand. She was not believable but we should have believed her anyway JUST because of what's between her legs?? I am all for the right person winning in these cases regardless of gender. That should have no baring on who's right or wrong.

And already, we have Marilyn Manson lining up to take Evan Rachel Wood to court for defamation of character.

He was already preparing to do this long before the case between Amber and Johnny.. Which is his right to do. I downloaded his complaint ages ago haven't read it yet but it was our before this trial. This case hasn't made it possible for him to do the same, he was already doing it.

nearlyspringyay · 02/06/2022 01:20

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This.

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 01:28

Varietyplaza · 02/06/2022 01:19

This result terrifies me.

Why? She acted like a pork chop on the stand. She was not believable but we should have believed her anyway JUST because of what's between her legs?? I am all for the right person winning in these cases regardless of gender. That should have no baring on who's right or wrong.

And already, we have Marilyn Manson lining up to take Evan Rachel Wood to court for defamation of character.

He was already preparing to do this long before the case between Amber and Johnny.. Which is his right to do. I downloaded his complaint ages ago haven't read it yet but it was our before this trial. This case hasn't made it possible for him to do the same, he was already doing it.

I explained why. It has nothing to do with her gender. It has everything to do with the implications for survivors everywhere. Regardless of gender.

Bouledeneige · 02/06/2022 02:00

I think the right decision was reached. I did not think she was a credible witness at all and was a proven liar. I think JD was abused by her. It is indeed a heinous act to lie about abuse to get a better divorce settlement and then promote yourself as an ambassador. And he had a right to sue for defamation - of course it's an enormous stain on his reputation. The only one of them who has ever been arrested for Assault is her.

However I have been alarmed by the baying for blood that the trial has unleashed and the misogyny. I hope she gets help and is not subjected to continuing harassment. And I hope that all victims of DV can get the help they need to get to safety. And that perpetrators are halted in their tracks. Sadly this is the impact of her lies.

unsoftenedorange · 02/06/2022 02:05

Bouledeneige · 02/06/2022 02:00

I think the right decision was reached. I did not think she was a credible witness at all and was a proven liar. I think JD was abused by her. It is indeed a heinous act to lie about abuse to get a better divorce settlement and then promote yourself as an ambassador. And he had a right to sue for defamation - of course it's an enormous stain on his reputation. The only one of them who has ever been arrested for Assault is her.

However I have been alarmed by the baying for blood that the trial has unleashed and the misogyny. I hope she gets help and is not subjected to continuing harassment. And I hope that all victims of DV can get the help they need to get to safety. And that perpetrators are halted in their tracks. Sadly this is the impact of her lies.

Is it the impact of her lies? Or is it the impact of a society that already looks for the first excuse not to believe survivors, and it being easier to blame one woman for it?

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