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Feminism: chat

I'm Nigerian. I'm livid. We don't consent to this. [Warning - contains details of child sex abuse]

134 replies

Mysterioso · 29/04/2022 17:04

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10732351/Girl-10-gang-raped-classmates-filmed-attack-trip-World-School-Games.html

The school suspended a 10 year old girl for improper behaviour when confronted with the video of her gang rape.

Shame on them.
Shame on all those who distributed or watched that video.
Shame on the adults who even attempt to look for signs of how "willing" that child was.
Shame on a system which enabled a school to think they could make this "story" go away.

My entire country needs to come out of this with a completely different perspective on girls bodies. I don't hold out much hope... the change seems to only happen by tiny shifts.

I'm livid that all I can do is type on the Internet. I want to scream.

[Title edited by MNHQ to include trigger warning]

OP posts:
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packedlunches · 29/04/2022 17:58

10 yrs old 😔

This has really shocked me. Im not surprised you're livid OP.

So sickening for it to happen in the first place, then to be suspended because she was upset.... I despair.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 17:59

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 17:57

Of course it's rape, if the poor child is only ten years old. She can't consent, she isn't old enough. She has been raped.

Obviously I wouldn't watch the video, but if she's telling the boys what to do then that suggests that she has been abused before!

That doesn't mean that I think that we should put ten year old boys in prison, of course not. But that doesn't mean that the poor girl isn't a rape victim!

We have to disagree. It can’t be rape if the boys are also her age and didn’t force her. Based on your logic we can also claim she raped the boys given she was the one showing them what to do right?

I don’t think claiming rape helps in any way here. They are all minors and the focus should be in therapy and help and getting to the root cause.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:00

I also keep talking about therapy and I really hope they get it but I also know as a Nigerian that we do not value therapy and things like that so I wouldn’t be surprised if they are just taken to a church to be prayed for and the root issues not dealt with.

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:02

Again how can it be rape when the girl initiated sex with boys her own age? Is this simply because they are boys and she is a girl therefore they must have forced her?

Rape is penetration without consent. The child isn't old enough to consent, so consent is absent. Therefore it's rape.

I understand that you're thinking about a classic rape scenario where someone is physically pinned down by a stranger and can't fight them off, but that isn't the only type of rape. Somebody might look like they are willingly engaging but they have been threatened, or they might be frightened of the person because of a previous encounter, or they might be too young to give consent, or they might be too drunk to give consent.

I mean if a child was, say, five years old and appeared to initiate, would you say that that was fine?

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SushiShopSearch · 29/04/2022 18:05

I don't think you need to be Nigerian to be appalled and horrified by this. What is happening to civilisation??

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:05

@Cantstandbullshit I haven't watched the video but rape requires penetration, so unless she penetrated the boys she didn't rape them.

I agree that the focus should be on therapy for all of the children involved, but denying the fact that the girl was raped doesn't help anyone.

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NutellaEllaElla · 29/04/2022 18:05

This is absolutely horrifying. The act is rape due to her age. (What did she know these things? Smacks of abuse tbh) The age of the perpetrators will require special considerations of course.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:11

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:02

Again how can it be rape when the girl initiated sex with boys her own age? Is this simply because they are boys and she is a girl therefore they must have forced her?

Rape is penetration without consent. The child isn't old enough to consent, so consent is absent. Therefore it's rape.

I understand that you're thinking about a classic rape scenario where someone is physically pinned down by a stranger and can't fight them off, but that isn't the only type of rape. Somebody might look like they are willingly engaging but they have been threatened, or they might be frightened of the person because of a previous encounter, or they might be too young to give consent, or they might be too drunk to give consent.

I mean if a child was, say, five years old and appeared to initiate, would you say that that was fine?

Again how can it be rape when an underage girl Initiated sex with an underaged boy? How can it be rape when she was the one showing the boys what to do? How can it be rape when she was the one who left her room and went to the boys room on a different floor of the hotel?

No it is not rape because your definition means only girls can be raped which is not true. Boys cal also be raped.

Spending time arguing if it is rape or not helps no one, priority is to get all the kids involved boys and girl help fast and get tk the root cause.

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stripeyflowers · 29/04/2022 18:16

It is monstrous - I'm not sure how it's relevant that OP is Nigerian, though.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:16

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:05

@Cantstandbullshit I haven't watched the video but rape requires penetration, so unless she penetrated the boys she didn't rape them.

I agree that the focus should be on therapy for all of the children involved, but denying the fact that the girl was raped doesn't help anyone.

Your logic means only girls can be raped which is so flawed and wrong. By your logic boys can only be raped if penetrated which means boys can only be raped if raped by a man. You see the flaw in your logic?

boys and girls can be raped simple so using who penetrated as the yardstick is wrong and sexist.

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catandcoffee · 29/04/2022 18:17

How worrying that 10 year olds even know about sexual intercourse.... has this poor child been the victim in sex abuse ?

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:19

Again how can it be rape when an underage girl Initiated sex with an underaged boy? How can it be rape when she was the one showing the boys what to do? How can it be rape when she was the one who left her room and went to the boys room on a different floor of the hotel?

No it is not rape because your definition means only girls can be raped which is not true. Boys cal also be raped.

Spending time arguing if it is rape or not helps no one, priority is to get all the kids involved boys and girl help fast and get tk the root cause.

I'm not arguing my opinion. The legal definition of rape is penetration without consent. The legal definition is met because she was penetrated and she isn't old enough to give consent. Yes boys can be raped but it requires them to be penetrated.

It's damaging for rape victims to say that they can't have been raped if they weren't physically held down and forced. This is a child. Do you think a five year old who appears willing is able to consent?

I agree that all the children need help and therapy, nobody is disputing that. But it does this poor girl a disservice to deny that she is a rape victim.

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itsgettingweird · 29/04/2022 18:19

Cantstandbullshit I agree with the sentiment of a lot of what your saying and can see the POV you're putting forward.

However as I understand (from my lawyer friend) the definition of rape of a penis penetrating the vagina without consent.

Males can rape females. Females commit sexual assault. (Although the rights and wrongs of this is another debate!)

What I'd definitely not up for,discussion is that there are serious safeguarding concerns for not only this girl but the boys. How does a 10yo girl know how to direct 10yo boys to have sex and how do 10yo boys not have the capacity to know this is entirely inappropriate and refuse?

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AlexaShutUp · 29/04/2022 18:20

Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:16

Your logic means only girls can be raped which is so flawed and wrong. By your logic boys can only be raped if penetrated which means boys can only be raped if raped by a man. You see the flaw in your logic?

boys and girls can be raped simple so using who penetrated as the yardstick is wrong and sexist.

So you are defining rape differently to how the law defines it?

It's rather difficult to discuss these issues with someone who doesn't accept the standard legal definition, as there is no common starting point.

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:21

Your logic means only girls can be raped which is so flawed and wrong. By your logic boys can only be raped if penetrated which means boys can only be raped if raped by a man. You see the flaw in your logic?

boys and girls can be raped simple so using who penetrated as the yardstick is wrong and sexist.

It's not my logic, it's the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The penetration doesn't need to be by a penis, so no, boys can be raped by men or women.

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backtobusy · 29/04/2022 18:22

Rape is penetration without consent. The child isn't old enough to consent, so consent is absent. Therefore it's rape.

The situation is rape because of the age of the child being penetrated.

It isn't possible for a child of that age to consent therefore it is automatically rape.

That doesn't mean there aren't child protection concerns to be addressed regarding the girl.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:24

itsgettingweird · 29/04/2022 18:19

Cantstandbullshit I agree with the sentiment of a lot of what your saying and can see the POV you're putting forward.

However as I understand (from my lawyer friend) the definition of rape of a penis penetrating the vagina without consent.

Males can rape females. Females commit sexual assault. (Although the rights and wrongs of this is another debate!)

What I'd definitely not up for,discussion is that there are serious safeguarding concerns for not only this girl but the boys. How does a 10yo girl know how to direct 10yo boys to have sex and how do 10yo boys not have the capacity to know this is entirely inappropriate and refuse?

So how does it work if a woman overpowers a man and raped him? The man is still the person penetrating right? So does that mean he is still the perpetrator or the victim?

Secondly consent is a key part here and I don’t see any legal way to say the girl did not give consent and the boys forced her based on what happened so I disagree it is rape.

Anyway no point arguing about this, I really hope they get the help they need. And authorities get tk the Bolton of where they learnt such behavior. I also hope they are not just punished but nothing by done to address the why. I am Nigerian and as I said we tend to look down on mental health and therapists etc and would rather go to church to pray.

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:24

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:21

Your logic means only girls can be raped which is so flawed and wrong. By your logic boys can only be raped if penetrated which means boys can only be raped if raped by a man. You see the flaw in your logic?

boys and girls can be raped simple so using who penetrated as the yardstick is wrong and sexist.

It's not my logic, it's the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The penetration doesn't need to be by a penis, so no, boys can be raped by men or women.

Actually looking at it, if it is an object other than a penis then it falls under a different category. So yes, you need a penis to rape. If you do it with a digit or object it is assault by penetration.

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Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov · 29/04/2022 18:24

@Cantstandbullshit legally only men can rape and women commit sexual assault which I believe - and stand to be corrected- oftentimes carries the same sentence. She was legally raped, he/they(?) were sexually assaulted.

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:27

So how does it work if a woman overpowers a man and raped him? The man is still the person penetrating right? So does that mean he is still the perpetrator or the victim?

Secondly consent is a key part here and I don’t see any legal way to say the girl did not give consent and the boys forced her based on what happened so I disagree it is rape.

If a woman overpowers a man and has sex with him then she is committing a sexual assault. He isn't committing a crime as she has consented.

A child can't consent to sexual activity. I've asked you several times now, but what age do you think a child is able to consent from? A five year old, for example?

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backtobusy · 29/04/2022 18:28

Boys can also be raped but only with a penis.

Females do sometimes get charged with rape if it is thought that they were significantly involved in the rape ( with a penis) of another person, but there still needs to be a penis.

A bigger issue is what has happened to this girl in the past and what support will be given to her and the boys involved moving forward.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:29

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:27

So how does it work if a woman overpowers a man and raped him? The man is still the person penetrating right? So does that mean he is still the perpetrator or the victim?

Secondly consent is a key part here and I don’t see any legal way to say the girl did not give consent and the boys forced her based on what happened so I disagree it is rape.

If a woman overpowers a man and has sex with him then she is committing a sexual assault. He isn't committing a crime as she has consented.

A child can't consent to sexual activity. I've asked you several times now, but what age do you think a child is able to consent from? A five year old, for example?

This case has nothing to do with age 5 or not. All parties were 10 so if the girl can’t consent at 10 then the boys can’t also consent at 10. Your logic applies if the boys were older but in this case they are the same underaged kids so saying she couldn’t consent well the boys also couldn’t consent. So where does that leave us? Insisting it was rape simply because she is a girl?

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MarshaBradyo · 29/04/2022 18:32

I don’t want to Google but the legal situation wrt underage children is likely to have precedent

Maybe someone who is aware of the law can say

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azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:32

This case has nothing to do with age 5 or not. All parties were 10 so if the girl can’t consent at 10 then the boys can’t also consent at 10. Your logic applies if the boys were older but in this case they are the same underaged kids so saying she couldn’t consent well the boys also couldn’t consent. So where does that leave us? Insisting it was rape simply because she is a girl?

Yes, the boys are also not able to consent. They have been sexually assaulted. She has been raped. And it's not my logic, it's the legal definition.

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Cantstandbullshit · 29/04/2022 18:34

azimuth299 · 29/04/2022 18:27

So how does it work if a woman overpowers a man and raped him? The man is still the person penetrating right? So does that mean he is still the perpetrator or the victim?

Secondly consent is a key part here and I don’t see any legal way to say the girl did not give consent and the boys forced her based on what happened so I disagree it is rape.

If a woman overpowers a man and has sex with him then she is committing a sexual assault. He isn't committing a crime as she has consented.

A child can't consent to sexual activity. I've asked you several times now, but what age do you think a child is able to consent from? A five year old, for example?

I’ve tried reading the law and from what I am seeing it is illegal for two minors to have sex even when both consent but it is not declared rape. However in practice it is against public interest to charge them as they are minors.

I haven’t seen anything that says it is rape even if they are both minors unless they forced her.

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