A Tory frontbencher watched porn on his mobile phone in the House of Commons while sitting alongside a female minister

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twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1519264807798595584?s=20&t=rA-tD9ekpAfridYkkl8hdg

FFS I have no words. Speechless.

No, she didn't. If you read what she said, the point is that none of the parties at present could be described as the party of women's rights. The Tories have done plenty of things that are hurting women more than men, but they do at least (mostly) understand and accept that there are two sexes and that this matters. The other parties may pay lip service to wanting to tackle sexism, the pay gap etc etc but it's all baloney because they use definitions of 'woman', 'female' etc based on gender, not sex, and denounce as bigots those of us who want to stick to sex-based rights.

Sex based rights are fundamental to me and Labour are bad with this. That does impact my vote.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g because they use definitions of 'woman', 'female' etc based on gender, not sex,

Gender and sex are the same thing.

Nope.

Gender and sex are the same thing.

Wow. Not the first clue.

@MrsTerryPratchett I imagine you are quite young (born post-1990). When I went to school, sex and gender were the same thing.

The modern definitions of gender I have read don't actually make any sense.

When I went to school, sex and gender were the same thing.

when i went to school they weren’t the same thing at all

never heard gender

When I was at secondary school in the 1970s, gender was a word which we knew from language lessons. Not otherwise. All application forms asked for sex - M/F.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Application forms only asked for sex because it's the same thing as gender, funnily enough.

My sex is male. My gender is male. That's because they're the same thing. Otherwise, can you please inform me of a scenario in which someone's sex would differ from their gender?

I don't know why you're asking me. I'm not a genderist. I believe female bodies and male bodies are different in some key respects which need to be allowed for in the interests of privacy and safety. I have no interest in gender except from the point of view of language learning.

@greasyshoes you can imagine anything you like, however I'm right and you're wrong.

Sex is biological. Any difference caused by the accident of birth. Gender is all the sociological stuff. Clothes, expectations of behaviour, stereotypes.

The only reason gender is used on forms instead of sex is prudishness. 90% of the time they are referring to sex.

Gender is all the sociological stuff. Clothes, expectations of behaviour, stereotypes.

Rubbish. You can't change gender by behaving differently. If I was to wear a dress, my gender doesn't change to female. My gender is still male.

And in my case, I actually don't care for, or conform to, the stereotypes. I just wear the clothes that are comfortable, I behave the way I want to, and I like the things I like. I don't care whether they are perceived as being "masculine" or "feminine", because I'm not a teenager and I am well beyond those insecurities. So what would you say my gender is? Would you call me "genderless"?

So what would you say my gender is? Would you call me "genderless"?

To me, gender is to do with learning foreign languages and finding that quite a lot only have male and female words, and each object has to be one or the other. So a car is female in French but a train is masculine.

Therefore as a person, not being a piece of grammar, I don't have a gender - but I am happy to admit to being female or a woman.

www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/gender/gender-definitions

@greasyshoes
This is what the WHO have to say about it.

I have to ask, do you actually take note of current affairs or read at all? Your views seem very dated.

Rubbish. You can't change gender by behaving differently. If I was to wear a dress, my gender doesn't change to female. My gender is still male.

No, your sex would be male. Your behaviour would be stereotypically feminine. That's gender.

However, I'm playing chess with pigeons now, so I'll bow out.

Er, that's the whole basis of being transgender. A person's sex is different from what they identify as/ consider to be their gender.

@OhLordyWhatNow

The WHO definition is nonsensical.

"People are born female or male, but learn to be girls and boys who grow into women and men. This learned behaviour makes up gender identity and determines gender roles."

I would be keen for the WHO to inform me how exactly I "learned" to be a boy, and what "learned behaviours" I have as a result of being a man.

No, your sex would be male. Your behaviour would be stereotypically feminine. That's gender.

Imagine not understanding that ascribing genders to such behaviour is what helps to reinforce gender stereotypes.

I reject such nonsense. A dress is fabric. There is nothing intrinsically feminine about a dress.

Er, that's the whole basis of being transgender. A person's sex is different from what they identify as/ consider to be their gender.

To me, it would appear that it's the sexual/biological aspects that are the basis of transgender, rather than the social aspects. That's why a large part of being transgender focuses on trying to reverse/change the secondary sexual characteristics of being male or female.

If it was just about the social aspects, then there would be no need for medical intervention.

Pretty sure you could write an email enquiry. Not sure why you think I should sort this 'dilemma' out for you.

Describing something doesn't mean you agree with it. I can describe the beliefs inherent in Nazism. Doesn't make me a Nazi. I can describe gender, doesn't mean I believe it's a good thing.

Yes, a dress is fabric. Hence why I said, STEREOTYPICALLY feminine.

But again, playing chess with pigeons.

@greasyshoes
I totally agree with you. The whole trans movement enforces sterotypes rather than trying to change them. If a man looks good in pink and it makes him feel good, why shouldn't he wear it and why should people perceive him to be less of a man. Similarly, it a woman wants to go out makeup free or not wax herself raw, why should her femininity be questioned. It is utterly ridiculous that in 2022, people are still confusing preferences for clothing and makeup and various activities with their 'authentic self'.

@MrsTerryPratchett Describing Nazism doesn't help to reinforce Nazism in society. If you're going to arbitrarily say dresses are stereotypically feminine, or football is stereotypically masculine, then that helps to reinforce those stereotypes.

Greasy

Are you being deliberately obtuse? MrsTerryPratchett hasn't written what you are misconstruing.

You need to work on your comprehension, and perhaps try not to be so insufferable.

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