Ways that men "check out " of family life

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Inspired by another thread where its apparently unreasonable to expect someone to stay and help on Xmas day and wanting them to do so is controlling, it got me thinking of all the ways in which partners , very often male partners, check out of family life

We see many threads on this also

We have- hobbies. The ones that seemingly involve alot of time and/or expense. Often involve smoking or drinking or getting dirty and smelly so inevitably upon return showers etc are needed before they can hug or pick.up.a child.

Luxury poos. Never is it ok to wait for u. You must wait for them by any means necessary. Strange how even bodily functions can be used to assert dominance or unavailability.

The " I've been at work all day" excuse. We all know the house cleans itself. The dinner miraculously appears in the slow cooker and the kids can walk several miles to school by themselves even in reception.

The " we can't afford the time.off work " excuse. Usually followed by a day off fir them to do their hobby.

The " you have the car" clause. Because buses don't exist.. nor do trains . I mean how did i manage before I got the car?

The falling asleep on the sofa method. This is a particularly frustrating one because fir some they honestly believe their presence in the house is enough to be considered to be contributing.

And last but not least the " I don't know where anything goes/how to get there/ I don't know anyone / the kids prefer u to do it" method used to excuse no one putting washing away or getting home work.done while you are working.

Feel free to add any more

@SparklingLime

If they know they won't get away with it then they won't do it.

So it’s up to women to police this behaviour, @PrincessPaws? Exhausting.

No they shouldn't have to, but the alternative seems to be do it all themselves and spend half their lives resentful and moaning about their shitty partners while changing nothing

As far as I see it women have the option to a) do that, b) have some self respect and leave, or c) actually take some action and attempt to change it by confronting the behaviour. So many people only see option a as the only option.

Of course they do.

Because they then have to send the kids round to someone's house/flat where they aren't there to ensure they fed properly or reminded to do homework.

@purplesequins

why do so many people accept the 'I don't know how' excuse?

possibly because that would leave children's basic needs unmet. disabled children unmedicated. important school desicions not made. children's dental check ups, eye checks etc not done.

That's what people tell themselves. Do you genuinely think that women are born knowing all this stuff men are completely incapable? God forbid mum died and they were suddenly solo

@Comedycook yes yes yes agree 100% about the getting ready to go out it's exactly the same in my house. why do men never think have they got pj's or are the uniforms ready for morning. I have all this extra to do and still ready before him. also if it's a day out with the dc I have to get them ready aswell as myself, get bags ready for the stuff we're gonna need, make sure the dc have eaten before we go. He just has himself to think about and get ready and we're still ready before him!

@Whatwouldscullydo

Of course they do.

Because they then have to send the kids round to someone's house/flat where they aren't there to ensure they fed properly or reminded to do homework.

Only if they are useless. Why do people marry such idiots?

Because often these things only present themselves after the marriage and/or kids

Also why do men seem to think they deserve a sexual 'reward' for any kind of DIY job they have done in the home as though we owe them something.
(or is that just my dp).

I didn’t even pick up on the gammon one and I commented on it 🙈

There is yet another how do I talk to my husband about doing anything except working and gaming running though.

Look, most men are neither useless nor idiots. They’re happy to do nothing if they can (who wouldn’t be)? Most of them love their kids. They’ll make sure they are fed and clothed and looked after if they have to. They may not do it in the “Perfect” way women are conditioned to (and that’s something else to disengage with!) but they won’t let them starve or smell.

And the ones that do are abusive and have no right to a family life.

Basically, expect more. You’re worth it. So are your kids.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Because often these things only present themselves after the marriage and/or kids

Well this, absolutely. Especially the kids part, and after a period of maternity leave. I think some of us show love through things we do for others - so making sure the dh has his gammon if he expressed a desire for gammon could be a way of showing love for him (disclaimer: I haven't read that thread). Fuck knows what the "love language" is for a lot of men though.

Look, most men are neither useless nor idiots.

If a man can hold down a jobs, drive a car, catch a bus, use a computer and other gadgets etc. then they can do basic household chores, if they don't, they're choosing not too. They're opting out and leaving the woman to pick up the slack.

As above, the options remain
A) put up and shut up and make peace with having a grown up child.
B) become a stressed out nag and hope he changes.
C) leave and expect better.

I pick C.

My favourite is the ‘looking after the children/doing the bare minimum then acting like they have really put themselves out.

This normally happens when I have to nip out for couple of hours, normally to the supermarket. I return home the bare minimum will have been done. Toddlers nappy will be full, kids will still be in pyjamas, and hair not brushed. breakfast will have normally have happened but bowls still on the table. Nothing will have been done in the house, bin will be full, no washing on, no dishwasher on, kitchen not wiped, and the living room is always trashed as he either plays on his phone and ignores the kids or goes for a long luxury poo and ignores the kids.

On the other hand when DH used to take DD swimming. I would get DS up, dressed, change nappy, make and eat breakfast, clear up breakfast, load the washing machine, empty and load the dishwasher, sweep the kitchen floor, wipe worktops, empty bin and the empty recycling then sit down and have a cup of tea and the house wouldn’t be trashed as haven’t ignored DS and sat on my phone for two hours. Then DH would get home and wonder what I had been doing for the previous two hours

Regarding mess, we have areas where it is chucked (by me) and areas that are DH's only (garage) and areas that are mine (home office). Due to WFH, I recently bought DH a writing desk that I can throw all his work crap in and close.

He doesn't empty his pockets onto the table though!

However, if I could go back to my mid 20s in a time portal I would take myself round his bachelor pad and point out that this is how he thinks it is OK to live. And to think about that.

I had my bi annual meet up with my long standing friends on Friday. Christ it was depressing. One husband refused to take a day off work so that she could go out - she got herself and two kids ready then dropped at babysitter that she organised. One had to pay best part of a grand to send husband away for the weekend as he doesn't like seeing her drunk. Another husband is working Xmas eve, day and boxing day out of choice. Bunch of dicks, and my friends fools for putting up with it!

Change only comes from discomfort

This, every time. If you don’t make it uncomfortable for selfish people to treat you badly, they will keep doing it. If you give in eventually, you’re just telling them that they just have to resist for long enough to wear you down.

When asked to anything I get " I don't know what your talking about, I don't know where x lived.
When he gets sent shopping he gets expensive stuff we don't need and loads of expensive stuff he fancies. This morning he spent £300 on nibbles for Boxing Day including 9 bags of mixed nuts as he loves them.

My ex could think of a million ways to not do any household contribution. His favourites were strategic incompetence, I’ll do it later - a year later never done, go slow to every task - what would take me 10 mins to clean up dinner will take him 90 mins, feigning depression and need for sleep, generally hiding away in the house.

I came to realise - and it took way too long - no amount of me being assertive in trying to negotiate household equality and the conflict, resentment and angst it gave me, or leaving the house turn to the sh!t in the hope it would bother him enough to do something, would ever resolve him to help.

Underlying his behaviour, was a firmly held belief that this was ‘womens work’ and it was beneath him to do.

I now realise when he married me, he wanted a housemaid, cook and cleaner, not really a wife - despite my near equal financial contribution re salary, education and professional career background.

My eyes have been opened - I now see misogyny everywhere - and I think I have PTSD having to survive within a marriage for so long where there was constant assertion by me demanding equality in the home and ensuing conflict and resentment when it didn’t come. And depression from living in a house that turned to sh!t when I stopped doing anything at all.

I am jaded. I see no solution. But I know I will NEVER live with another man again or put myself back in that position.

I despair for my DDs. I think women of my generation (born 1975-1990) have never had it so bad in terms of the pressure to do so much work, both inside and outside the house.

I do think encouraging in my daughters to be successful in their own fields, and never lose financial independence to any future partner is a start.

I'll bite one last time RJnomore1

Please don't twist my words again! I am not laughing at the situation as you well know, I am laughing at how you purport to be supportive of women by blaming them and by being almost insulting to them! Why don't you choose to judge and criticise the men who cause the mess instead? Real change comes through mutual support not in-fighting!

I remember you on another thread goading someone endlessly though, so maybe that is how you like to spend your time?

PrincessPaws I can guarantee that if it starts to inconvenience him then he'll stop leaving his mess everywhere

I am sorry but you are quite wrong. No it doesn't! It didn't for eight weeks and it wouldn't for eight years! Not in his car. Not in his gym bag (if he had one). Not in his home. That is the point.

Socialisation has worked in reverse in this case. His father cooked but that's it. His mother did no housework ever. Which is why dh is used to mess and can function perfectly happily in it!

I can't so I clear up for myself and to provide a reasonably nice home for my dd (and another teen who is living with us occasionally). I am not facilitating my dh per se. I do the minimum to keep things relatively tidy and hygienic for all of us. If you have dc, you have to consider them too, so it's just not practical to say "let it all go to shit". I refuse to be blamed for doing that. And as dh does a thousand good things in other areas, I refuse to be blamed for not divorcing him either.

Life is not black and white and there are not always "easy" solutions to these problems.

Some people on here need to grow up and understand that. And also believe women when they say they have tried to change things to the best of their ability , and don't accuse them of passivity and weakness when they are doing their very best. It really doesn't help.

Please save your blame and ire for the people that cause the issue in the first place.

I see my own internalised misogyny is still burning bright despite my determination to kill it … ‘would ever resolve him to help’.

I meant to say would ever resolve him to contribute equally to the domestic household burdens.

@EightWheelGirl

Isn't it also the case that women are around 33% more likely to divorce a man who earns less than them and SAHD also have a much higher divorce rate. This would seem to imply that when the tables are turned it isn't the life of privilege which many on here claim men have.

Husbands leave 30% of times when wife is sick. SAHD cheat even more than working dads.

I don't live with my partner but am pregnant (accidental pregnancy I am more than happy about now but not happy about my situation) I don't want to live with him as I know it'll turn out like this and I can't be bothered starting with it. I just don't know how I'll afford to live alone when my child is older than one as I have a one bedroom flat. Once we're on maternity leave we're screwed really. My partner would actually chip in as and when and do whatever I asked him but I'd need to tell him and I don't want the mental load of an adult man on top of a child.
I honestly think at times I'll be better off alone as at least then I'd be getting maintenance 🤦🏻‍♀️

Right enough.

Don’t you dare come on here accusing me of goading when you have done nothing but repeatedly pick at me, deliberately twist my words and backtrack in an attempt to make yourself feel better in your self appointed victim status.

If I believe something I will defend it. Did you not accuse me earlier of not liking being challenged? I think I’ve given you plenty of response and tried to be as kind as I could in them to refute that but actually I’m starting to think you are just out for a fight as you seem to be deliberately ignoring lots of comments with agree with some of my points in an attempt to make personal attacks now.

Another thought, given I don’t think my experience is unique, is perhaps encourage my DDs to give serious consideration to a life on their own, and in the event they wanted a family, they procure sperm as one would buy bread or Panadol, to serve its purpose. And have men or women for friendship, company, sex, on a visitation basis, not living in.

I can genuinely say that in my 40 plus years I have maybe only once / twice ever seen a relationship that might have mutual respect and the tiniest of equality re sharing domestic burdens. There really are no or so few positive examples to watch, observe, learn from and emulate. It is almost like seeing a unicorn.

My life experience of almost every observed relationship within my immediate and wider family, colleagues and friends reveals relationships that exist where women are burdened unfairly and in not insignificant way.

I think the women piping up here saying my partner does his 50%, and if he doesn’t, they wouldn’t put up with it or threaten divorce, are either deluded or have overlooked as to how much other mental load and other tasks they are carrying.

Alternatively, they are uniquely one of the few ‘unicorn’ relationships that exist in this world. But I doubt this.

@RJnomore1

Right enough.

Don’t you dare come on here accusing me of goading when you have done nothing but repeatedly pick at me, deliberately twist my words and backtrack in an attempt to make yourself feel better in your self appointed victim status.

If I believe something I will defend it. Did you not accuse me earlier of not liking being challenged? I think I’ve given you plenty of response and tried to be as kind as I could in them to refute that but actually I’m starting to think you are just out for a fight as you seem to be deliberately ignoring lots of comments with agree with some of my points in an attempt to make personal attacks now.

RJnomore1 I really don't think this is getting us anywhere. I could quite reasonably accuse you of all the very same things. And your idea of "being kind" is very different to mine.

Let's leave it there shall we?

I'll give you an example of how having children has only a minor impact on men's lives.

We had just had dc2. Dh was on the phone to one of his old college friends. I overheard the whole conversation...it was fifteen minutes into the call before I heard him mention our dd had been born.

Another thought, given I don’t think my experience is unique, is perhaps encourage my DDs to give serious consideration to a life on their own, and in the event they wanted a family, they procure sperm as one would buy bread or Panadol, to serve its purpose. And have men or women for friendship, company, sex, on a visitation basis, not living in.

I have a DD, she's only young at the minute, but I'm trying to impress upon her that a partner should make your life better, not worse, otherwise, what's the point?

If your partner cares so little about you that they won't clean up after themselves when you've asked them too, what's the point of them? That's just having another kid to wipe up after.

A loving partner listens and takes your feelings into consideration, that's like the absolute bare minimum you should expect surely? if they don't, how can you say they love you and don't just see you as their servant?