Experiences of men behaving badly: want to share

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Just reflecting on all the recent press about misogyny and male violence against women. The argument many men give is that they are not like that, though don’t understand what ‘like that means’. So the new campaign out in Scotland is a refreshing change.

My experiences from age 5:

• on way to toilet age 5, man is trespassing in school with his penis in his hand. I am alone and he asks me where the toilets are and can I take him. Later, during police interview female officer tells me off for referring to his penis as a willy and not using the proper word, penis. I am 5 years old.

• on school bus, age 8. Lorry driver out of window starts to mouth the word ‘f#ck’ and miming kisses at me.

• age 16 on a night out, man rubs against me on the dance floor with his erect penis. Kept following me around and wouldn’t leave me.

• age 20 at a party and my female friend tells me someone asking for me upstairs. I go up and there is a guy we know who them locks door and says he won’t open it unless I kiss him.

• age 27, news get backs to me that a guy at work in a management position tells everyone he doesn’t like me and is going to make my life (at work) hard

• age 35, group of us talking about violence against women and male in group says we’ve nothing to worry about because we’re a bit old so no one would bother us

These are all just everyday experiences that come to mind. Others too but I wanted to share. What has happened to you? Why don’t you share? Sending everyone hugs xx

Thank you @NiceGerbil for validating the original intention of my post. This wasn’t about man hating or saying women are perfect, just about sharing experiences in a safe place for those who want to.

*Physically beaten up from the age of 5-12 in primary school from a guy in my class who was a complete psychopath. Asked me to go to a disco with him once and when I refused he caught the jagged edge of a pen and tore my arm open with it. Still have a scar to this day from it.

bullied relentlessly in secondary school by 3 guys, called a fat, ugly b* every day for 3 years.. also had a number of other classmates stick their crotch in my face thinking it was funny.

*First boyfriend attempted to rape me at 16

*when I was in recovery from bulimia, in a relationship with a guy who would constantly go on about how he preferred women with a fuller figure. He also lied to me about having cancer

*Another ex got extremely violent and aggressive when I broke up with him, threatened to kill me and also punch me in the face. Kept getting hate mail from him for a year after I broke up with him.

These are just the most relevant ones but there have been many many more. This doesn't even include the random leering and harassment on the street and from strangers.

And yes women can be equally awful and like anyone else, been treated badly by some women, but definitely.not to the extent that I have with men

I thought of another one. I was having sex with a guy I was seeing in his flat that he shared with another guy. Halfway through, the friend opened his door and said 'can I have a go?' I said no, then later received abusive messages from him on Facebook because I'd said no to him.

Works both ways, Men can be right cunts
Women can be right cunts not the same though is it? I've never been sexually assaulted by a woman, never felt physically scared of a woman, never been objectified by a woman, never been physically threatened by a woman, never encountered a woman masturbating in public/flashing in public etc etc etc ad infinitum.

Quite @BoxOfDreams

@NewPage

Thank you *@NiceGerbil* for validating the original intention of my post. This wasn’t about man hating or saying women are perfect, just about sharing experiences in a safe place for those who want to.

OP these boards have a lot of posters with views that are pretty unusual for feminists at the moment.

There's zero wrong with your post. Nothing at all. And I'm sorry to read the experiences you've shared.

Please don't take certain posts to heart

Does anyone actually genuinely believe that 'women do it to'/'women are just as bad as men' etc? If you do, feel free to ask for a link to the many excellent posts on here with details of where to find official statistics and verified facts.

I count myself as pretty lucky. I know that NAMALT and have some brilliant men in my life. I have not experienced the serious abuse/violence that some women I know have been through. However, some of the incidents that I have experienced or witnessed in the last few years are:

• My car surrounded by young men on bikes when driving home after dark. All shouting sexualised comments and some making explicit gestures. One man I told about this asked what I had done to provoke it- apparently young men would not make sexualised comments to a middle aged woman for no reason.
• Man sat next to me on an almost empty train and tried to make small talk. The more empty the train became the more inappropriate the questions he asked. Then got angry when I tried to move seats. The couple of other men on the train pretended not to be aware of this (heads down whilst he shouted at me). A week or so later the same man followed me to my car and tried to get in the blocked my exit, only moving when another car needed to get in to the car park.
• Men sitting outside a pub made sexualised comments to DD and her friends on the way home from school (aged 15 and in uniform). Landlord's response was to lighten up, this was just banter and they would need to get used to it. School told them to find an alternative way home.
• Men in a car shouting 'lesbian' at DD, because apparently she was not smiling enough.
• Older boy persuading friend's 14 year old DD to send him photos of her in underwear. Then sharing it with all his friends and threatening to share with the whole school unless she sent him nude photos. (Thankfully she told her mum at that point).
• Overheard a group of teenage boys walking home from school complaining about a new female teacher being too strict and laughing about raping her to show her she couldn't tell them what to do. There were numerous men nearby and not one said a word.

These are experiences in just a couple of years, of a middle aged woman living in a small town and not doing anything 'risky'.

Does anyone actually genuinely believe that 'women do it to'/'women are just as bad as men' etc? If you do, feel free to ask for a link to the many excellent posts on here with details of where to find official statistics and verified facts.

But please have the common decency to make your own thread for it, rather than on this one which has a very explicit purpose.
I can't understand the mindset of anyone who reads the OP and then posts a 'women do it too' or 'who'd be a man' or implying it's not worth posting about. Ffs if you don't want to give it headspace why post?

Christ who'd be a man these days.

Yeah it must be terrible not to be able to just treat women however you like for fear of actually being called out on it. Much easier when women used to just put up with it. Dh doesn't seem to find it hard 'being a man these days'. But then he's not an entitled, misogynistic twat.

I feel for men.

So many men at my work when metoo happened. A rollercoaster for them.

Why didn't anyone tell us things were this bad. To, it can't be that bad is anon lots will be exaggerated or made up. To, we can't even look at a woman any more! In the space of about 10 days.

With Weinstein at work there was also a lot of confusion.

Luckily I was there to approach at the coffee machine to chat about it.

They had so many questions. And when I answered they often seemed to have a really difficult time even trying to make sense of it all.

Questions like-

Casting couch is a thing. Actress goes to producer hotel room they know the score. And regretting sex isn't rape.

I tried to ease their minds by pointing out that he was accused of rapey rape rape. Not nicey pretty much consensual rape.
I reassured them that a man in his position would have a huge suite more like a flat. Not like a holiday Inn small room with bed in it.
And that having conversations about roles etc would prob be done in private due to paps, gossip colums etc will she be in X film.

They really struggled with this. They raised point after point at work with me about rape.
Sadly I don't think I was able to ease their minds.

It is VERY confusing.

There's also the obvious point that when a man anywhere commits sex offences that are in the news. That it's a personal insult. And women talking about it is just cruel. Adding insult to injury. They feel bad enough already.

Add in the fact that most women and girls are extremely unstable and vindictive. Women and girls don't have to live with the constant fear of being falsely accused by someone they barely know. Being arrested and set straight to prison (feminists in charge of justice system). Lives ruined. The stats for VAWG look bad sure but really that's a side issue. Everyone knows that women and girls hold this constant threat over men and boys and they love that power.

Yes it's tough.

'But please have the common decency to make your own thread for it, rather than on this one which has a very explicit purpose.
I can't understand the mindset of anyone who reads the OP and then posts a 'women do it too' or 'who'd be a man' or implying it's not worth posting about. Ffs if you don't want to give it headspace why post?'

I think we all know the answer to that surely?

@nicegerbil, I guess posters may say those things to silence the sharing of experiences that women have and can relate to. I would suggest it's the people who benefit from pretending male sexual violence to women does not exist.

I genuinely thought it was normal as a teen in nightclubs to have often much older male hands up my skirt and hard-ons rubbed against me and for it to be my job to stop it. I remember knowing that women's toilets were usually safe, but still better to go in pairs, to get a taxi just before clubs shut as the predators were worse if you were stuck outside without the bouncers to monitor them.

At an earlier age I learnt the uncle to avoid in hallways as when alone he would whisper creepy things that I did not understand.

YY and there are regular threads on here where women share this stuff.

I've not seen such a fast response like this from more than one poster though! That's new.

And 'heard it all before' is monumentally grim.

As a young child, visiting my grandmother she told me I could take a chocolate from the box on the table. As I had it in my hand, my father said I had to give him a kiss on the cheek first before I could eat it. I said no and he grapped my hand with the chocolate in it so I couldn’t eat it or walk away. I just kept standing and didn’t move, just staring at him until he got bored and let me go. I remember how the chocolate had melted in my hand and my grandmother had gone outside to the garden because she was annoyed by this silly ‘game’ and I went to find her.
In primary schools I overheard 2 classmates say they were going to grope me - to them it was a joke, I felt highly uncomfortable.
Receiving a rape threat and unsolicited dick pics as part of bullying in secondary school.
Constantly being slapped on my bum and teased about the size of it by my younger brothers, encouraged by my father who would sometimes kick it as a ‘joke’.
Being followed around by a young guy when I was cycling past a forest on my way to school, he kept telling me he wanted to have sex with me in the bushes.
Forcibly being kissed by a man on a night out. Being raped by a date after I said no to penetration because we didn’t have condoms at hand. Stealthing by ex boyfriend. Being told by my father that he didn’t care if I was going to be a prostitute because I had gone on a night out with some male friends.

I’m getting too upset now to write more of my experiences. Writing this down now makes me realize how much I hate my father, and other family members for not stepping in and where the feeling of never feeling really safe comes from.

It's almost as though there was a plan to counteract the sharing of reality. Poor excuses to silence women tend to include:
Heard it before.
More men are attacked than women.
Feel sorry for men/feminists emasculate men.
Men are blamed for everything.

In reality, women know what OP means. When male strength or crude behaviour is used against us we know the fear and repulsion.

I find it really interesting though.

MN is one site in one country. This board is one corner and individual threads are little bits in that corner.

Posters who come along and do this aren't going to change the minds of the posters. Invariably they come across so badly that any lurkers will thing bloody hell that's terrible and lose a bit of any sympathy they had.

It won't change anything in the wider world.

So what's the point? In coming here and looking for threads they can be gits to women on, threads usually about seriously awful stuff.

I mean I can't imagine thinking oh I know. I'll go on a thread about. Um. With men sharing stories about being beaten up on nights out. And post saying women have it worse this is boring you should stop posting about this.

I mean. Eh?

Not least because why would I want to stop them. I have zero probs with men talking about that.

It must be rewarding personally. And I can't think of a positive thing that is giving that reward.

@LaBellina, I'm sorry you experienced so much abuse and particularly by your dad and brothers too. I hope you have support now.

@nicegerbil, it all goes back to control. Silencing is major control. Women as adult human females aren't going to stop talking anymore than any other groups.

[quote Enough4me]@LaBellina, I'm sorry you experienced so much abuse and particularly by your dad and brothers too. I hope you have support now.[/quote]
Thank you @Enough4me. I have practically zero contact with them, but some of these things I have never told anyone in real life. I feel ashamed, even though I rationally know it’s not my fault, I feel that somehow I attract it. Which might be true in a way because from a young age I was taught my boundaries don’t really count. I hope to get closure once my father dies.

I feel rage for all the girls and women who are made to feel that bad male behaviour is their fault. There is nothing that girls and women do that excuses bad male behaviour.

It isn't clothes, a look, not saying no loud enough or repeating it, it's not our fault if we are alone, or drunk, or a child. Male behaviour is male choice.

I don't need any more information to be convinced. I have no time for the NAMALT bullshit, I have not met one man who isn't mysoginst. Not one who doesn't objectify women.

LaBellina.

Thank you @ErrolTheDragon

I’ve shared it here, not because I want others to feel sorry for me, but I think it’s so important to talk about these things. It doesn’t matter if there’s a thread about this openend every day. Sharing these experiences sheds light on why NAMALT is so enraging to hear when these things are occurred. Certainly not all men but way TOO MANY MEN. And they would love nothing less then for us to be silent about it.

*are occurring so often to so many women

OP, I hope the sharing on here makes you feel less alone in your experiences.