Feminism: chat
Uni indirectly discriminating
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 13:05
Just came on here to rant. I'm a mature student (30s) and also a lone parent. I opted to do a gender module and they ironically put that module outside of childcare hours, 4.30pm-6.30pm.
No one would listen to me and I was not taken seriously until i got advise from the equality advisory service. They advised I was being indirectly discriminated against because of my sex.
They gave me a template letter to fill out stating that the uni has a duty to follow the Equalities Act 2010 and not discriminate.
Well ever since i've sent it, a rocket has gone up their bum and suddenly they can change the times of the module. I also received a big apology.
Why did it have to come to sending a stern letter quoting the equalities act for them to do something. It makes me so so angry. The Uni claims its all inclusive but actually they don't think about mature students especially parents.
MultiStorey · 23/09/2021 14:39
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
SweetBabyCheeses99 · 23/09/2021 16:11
Yeah I don’t get it? A single parent could just as easily be a man as a woman. Is the 1630-1830 teaching slot part of the normal Uni timetable? If so, what do you do if other modules are scheduled then?
I’m sure it’s tough being both a mature student and single parent so big kudos to you, and well done for getting the Uni to support you, but it’s not an Equalities Act thing.
LangClegsInSpace · 23/09/2021 16:20
Women are much more likely to have childcare responsibilities than men, therefore it is potentially indirect discrimination, even though some men may also be affected.
Indirect discrimination can be lawful if the uni can show that it's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Given their reaction to the letter and the ease with which they changed the time, this is obviously not the case here.
Well done OP!
BubbleCoffee · 23/09/2021 16:22
90 per cent of single parents are women.
www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/media-centre/single-parents-facts-figures/
gogohm · 23/09/2021 16:32
I don't agree, all universities have stated hours and courses can be scheduled anywhere within those hours. When I was at university this was 9-6, my exh is a lecturer and his can be scheduled 8.30am-7.30pm - no comeback because it's not convenient and yes it was tested by a female member of staff who was told by the tribunal that whilst they understood her childcare issues, the university only had a set number of lecture spaces therefore if she had all of hers between 10&4 others would be disproportionately affected by the early and late slots, the compromise was no member of staff would have more than one early (before 9) and one late (after 5) per week and never on the same day, men and women treated equally because men have childcare needs too
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 19:11
[quote BubbleCoffee]90 per cent of single parents are women.
www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/media-centre/single-parents-facts-figures/[/quote]
Thank you.
Yes this is why it's indirect discrimination. Majority of primary caregivers are women.
This is a module taken mostly by women too and my lectuer also agreed with me and said how iconic it was that the lecture was put at this time as women with children could not access it
BoreiPuriHagafen · 23/09/2021 19:14
@SweetBabyCheeses99
I’m sure it’s tough being both a mature student and single parent so big kudos to you, and well done for getting the Uni to support you, but it’s not an Equalities Act thing.
It is though. Because in reality it's overwhelmingly likely to affect women. Just as a requirement that candidates are over six foot tall would unequally affect women. Or holding seminars in the pub would be a way of indirectly discriminating against Muslims. Or having exams on a Saturday would indirectly discriminate against Jews.
If one group is negatively affected more than another, it is an equalities issue.
MonsignorMirth · 23/09/2021 19:15
Not exactly the same, but there was a recent tribunal case where it was recognised that childcare was usually undertaken by women and thus was sex discrimination. There was a thread about somewhere.
realemploymentlawadvice.co.uk/2021/07/15/landmark-ruling-for-working-mothers-sex-discrimination-case/
MonsignorMirth · 23/09/2021 19:19
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 19:34
[quote MonsignorMirth]Not exactly the same, but there was a recent tribunal case where it was recognised that childcare was usually undertaken by women and thus was sex discrimination. There was a thread about somewhere.
realemploymentlawadvice.co.uk/2021/07/15/landmark-ruling-for-working-mothers-sex-discrimination-case/[/quote]
Ah yes and there was another lady on this morning who won her tribunal as they refused to offer her flexible working hours after coming back from maternity leave
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 19:36
@LigandBrigand
And gender of all modules.. I’d have to slip the experience into the exam as a case study.
Haha I'm actually studying psychology and this gender module is not in my school but I had the option to take it. So I could definitely research this in my psychology assignments!
titchy · 23/09/2021 19:43
I'm glad it was resolved and fully understand the indirect discrimination argument.
However I'm surprised they and you thought it applied though tbh. Childcare IS available at that time. And it's a perfectly normal time to schedule a lecture. Your lack of childcare isn't really their problem. If you can't attend a lecture that's on you to sort out, not for them to reschedule around you. Would you argue classes during school holidays or evenings or Saturdays or after school finishes were discriminatory?
Wait till you get your exam timetable...
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 19:45
@Viviennemary
No the world can't but it can make it more fair and equal for women who are parents.
It might not be for 1 person or so but I would say it would affect the majority of women in my position
Watermelonsugarhi · 23/09/2021 19:51
@titchy
However I'm surprised they and you thought it applied though tbh. Childcare IS available at that time. And it's a perfectly normal time to schedule a lecture. Your lack of childcare isn't really their problem. If you can't attend a lecture that's on you to sort out, not for them to reschedule around you. Would you argue classes during school holidays or evenings or Saturdays or after school finishes were discriminatory?
Wait till you get your exam timetable...
Actually my DS childcare finishes at 6. I'm a single parent so no other childcare.
You're missing the point of its not just me but it's looking at the wider picture of women in my position would they be disadvantaged by this time compared to men and the answer is yes.
And yes to weekends too as per the case that was posted about that the women won.
Holidays for work you would ask for flexible working hours and they would need a good reason as to why not and they cannot discriminate as to why you cannot have it.
roolz · 23/09/2021 19:55
@gogohm
OP is a single parent unlike your DH, plus who provides childcare past 6:30? How is she meant to travel to pick up her child?
The university is not necessarily wrong, but OP shouldn't be penalised because they timetabled her for an evening lecture.
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