Uni indirectly discriminating

[Watermelonsugarhi]

Just came on here to rant. I'm a mature student (30s) and also a lone parent. I opted to do a gender module and they ironically put that module outside of childcare hours, 4.30pm-6.30pm.

No one would listen to me and I was not taken seriously until i got advise from the equality advisory service. They advised I was being indirectly discriminated against because of my sex.
They gave me a template letter to fill out stating that the uni has a duty to follow the Equalities Act 2010 and not discriminate.

Well ever since i've sent it, a rocket has gone up their bum and suddenly they can change the times of the module. I also received a big apology.

Why did it have to come to sending a stern letter quoting the equalities act for them to do something. It makes me so so angry. The Uni claims its all inclusive but actually they don't think about mature students especially parents.

Work is a completely different kettle of fish though. This is a service being provided. It's like demanding that a particular train company runs a train at a specific time so mums have time to drop their kids off first. Don't buy the service if it doesn't suit your requirements.

And I'd argue that women wouldn't be particularly disadvantaged by a module at that time. Particularly an optional one. Just because you don't have childcare at that time doesn't mean it's impossible to get.

Do you argue that evening classes are also discriminatory?

The university is not necessarily wrong, but OP shouldn't be penalised because they timetabled her for an evening lecture.

They didn't - she chose that module, she could have chosen one that fitted her personal circumstances better.

I'm not sure I agree with all this actually

Single mums can take any module, so really what you're saying is that no modules should be scheduled outside of what, 9 to 5? That's not realistic at many universities.

For all you know, there may be another single mum in your module who signed up for it because she works until 4 and can get family to watch her kids for a couple hours afterwards, and now she can't take the module because it's during her working hours.

What I mean is that it's not possible to take into account every student's personal needs, that's why students should just sign up for whatever modules fit into their schedule.

I would see your point more if say every module or all the core modules were between 4 and 6, but just one module? That you don't have to take?

To clear up the "optional" module argument. My course is made up of so many credits. There are modules that i cannot chose in my course and this year i could chose 1 out of 3 'optional' modules. I have to chose 1 of those to make up the correct credits for that year.
When we chose these modules we did not know the times of when they would be. The timetable only got released a week ago and that was very delayed.

@dreamingbohemian

I'm not sure I agree with all this actually

Single mums can take any module, so really what you're saying is that no modules should be scheduled outside of what, 9 to 5? That's not realistic at many universities.

For all you know, there may be another single mum in your module who signed up for it because she works until 4 and can get family to watch her kids for a couple hours afterwards, and now she can't take the module because it's during her working hours.

What I mean is that it's not possible to take into account every student's personal needs, that's why students should just sign up for whatever modules fit into their schedule.

I would see your point more if say every module or all the core modules were between 4 and 6, but just one module? That you don't have to take?

Please see below, I do have to take it to make up my credits

Well done OP.

Thankfully our laws and courts have a bit more understanding than some of the posters here.

I can imagine some women will have worked out childcare etc. to do the module and now they can't as it's been changed.

Omg 😳

@slashlover

I can imagine some women will have worked out childcare etc. to do the module and now they can't as it's been changed.

Plus another course/module will likely have been swapped to the evening slot. I get evening lectures are shit but they've been a thing at every uni I've studied and worked at. Unis try to avoid them as they know it's not popular for anyone but rooms are under immense timetabling strain.

Look into Athena Swan accreditation. Most unis want to work to it now and they are not supposed to put lectures/seminars at that kind of awkward time for childcare! Definitely nothing after 5pm

Plus another course/module will likely have been swapped to the evening slot. I get evening lectures are shit but they've been a thing at every uni I've studied and worked at. Unis try to avoid them as they know it's not popular for anyone but rooms are under immense timetabling strain.

Most of my tutorials are evening tutorials for my course. If they were all 9:30-2:30 then I wouldn't be able to attend any of them because I work.

@rattlemehearties

Look into Athena Swan accreditation. Most unis want to work to it now and they are not supposed to put lectures/seminars at that kind of awkward time for childcare! Definitely nothing after 5pm

Aye, screw people who might work.

Exactly, there is no way to account for everyone's situation

I understand it was inconvenient for you OP but did you even think that changing the time might be inconvenient for loads of other people in the module? People who work, people who now have a conflict with another module they chose, etc etc.

It is an important issue that should be addressed at a policy level, not changing individual modules to suit one student

The equalities act is written for a reason. It's the law and they should not discriminate. So i don't get why everyone is jumping on my back!!

@LangClegsInSpace

Sex is a protected characteristic

Sex is a protected characteristic. Often seems to be left of lists of protected characteristics these days - almost as though people were trying to get rid of sex as one of the list of protected characteristics or replace it with gender (which is not a protected characteristic) .

Sorry LangCleg - quoted the wrong post!! Clearly you know sex is protected characteristic!! (and that LangCleg is a MN Treasure).

@Watermelonsugarhi

The equalities act is written for a reason. It's the law and they should not discriminate. So i don't get why everyone is jumping on my back!!

It's against your specific set of circumstances but you've probably buggered it up for lots of other people. Good luck though.

@Watermelonsugarhi

The equalities act is written for a reason. It's the law and they should not discriminate. So i don't get why everyone is jumping on my back!!

What exactly is the law?

Does the law say you cannot hold evening classes? No.

The fact that your university caved does not mean they genuinely agree that it's discriminatory for them to have evening classes. It means they would rather inconvenience a class full of students than go through 500 rounds of arguing about it with you.

I actually don't think this is indirect discrimination. It's inconvenient for you because you are a lone parent. Even if most lone parents are female, it's not the case that every or even most lone parents would struggle to make the lecture. It's just doesn't fit with your circumstances. And I do have a pretty good understanding of the Equality Act.

For the non lone parent women an evening tutorial was probably better. If they have a husband who works normal office type hours they wouldn't need childcare. Now they will and if they can't suit it won't be able to do the module. Problem is nothing works for everyone.

@Watermelonsugarhi

The equalities act is written for a reason. It's the law and they should not discriminate. So i don't get why everyone is jumping on my back!!

Because the equalities laws in all likelihood don't actually apply in this situation. Your uni has taken the cowardly option of screwing everyone else over because they don't particularly want to take this to court - even though they'd likely win, the immediate cost is too much.

@CovidCorvid

For the non lone parent women an evening tutorial was probably better. If they have a husband who works normal office type hours they wouldn't need childcare. Now they will and if they can't suit it won't be able to do the module. Problem is nothing works for everyone.

I've spoken to non lone parents on the course and they completely agree with me too. A lecture that late with a child isn't great

Imagine the single parent who has managed to get one of the few jobs which are during school hours and now has to choose between doing the course and working.

Christ it started with well done and now apparently I'm selfish for sticking up for myself to be able to access a module that is outside of regular childcare times.

@slashlover

Imagine the single parent who has managed to get one of the few jobs which are during school hours and now has to choose between doing the course and working.

Most lectures are during school hours!!! We don't go to night school.