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Feminism: sex and gender

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Feminism: sex and gender

Feminism: chat

Plymouth mass shooter was an incel

149 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 13/08/2021 12:03

Reports say that Jake Davison, 23, who killed six people yesterday in Plymouth including himself, was part of the Incel movement. He's had a YouTube channel moaning about how I one wanted to have sex with him.

Well I'm not surprised unfortunately but the question is will ANYTHING be done about the violent misogyny that is ever prevalent these days from these types of men? Will mass action be taken against these incel groups the way extremist groups were targeted after other terrorist attacks? Or will this be fobbed off as a lone wolf and we will be told that men who despise women to the point of becoming violent are nothing to worry about?

Will women start being protected?

Place your bets please. I've got a funny feeling the answer is 'no'

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SmokedDuck · 13/08/2021 12:14

What is your suggestion for preventing this kind of thing?

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karasviper · 13/08/2021 12:19

Police saying this isn’t terrorist attack. Why? Definition on CPS website:

‘ Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

Examples include:

serious violence against a person or damage to property,
endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action),
creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public,
action designed to seriously interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.’

Incel is an ideology. So why isn’t this terrorism?

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karasviper · 13/08/2021 12:20

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/03/incel-movement-terror-threat-canada

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SquirryTheSquirrel · 13/08/2021 12:22

The incel movement infuriates me - chiefly because it presents as 'no women will have sex with us' but what it actually means is 'no women of the level of attractiveness we deem worthy will have sex with us'.

Most people - male/female/LBTQ - would like it if perfect people, physically and psychologically, were queuing up to have sex with them. That isn't the reality for most - some level of compromise is normal.

The incels have set up a fantasy world where everyone is having great sex, all the time, except them, and then rail against it being unfair. No, it's not unfair - it's real life for most people, including women.

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WhenSheWasBad · 13/08/2021 12:23

The incel movement is scary. No idea what to do about it though.

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pontefractals · 13/08/2021 12:25

@SmokedDuck

What is your suggestion for preventing this kind of thing?

Off the top of my head:
Include misogyny in hate crime legislation so it is publicly recognised as a serious problem.
Educate boys from an early age that they don't have a right to women's bodies, however "nice" they are, and that if you can't get laid you should probably take a look at yourself rather than blame an entire sex.
Tighten up firearms laws - I believe this bloke had a firearms license, though it's not yet clear whether or not it covers the weapon he used. He also, apparently, had opem social media in which he expressed right-wing and misogynistic views.

I think, personally, that the biggest thing might be getting official recognition that misogyny is a problem.

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FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 13/08/2021 12:25

@SmokedDuck

What is your suggestion for preventing this kind of thing?

Finding out who frequents these incel forums, that are very active and full of men encouraging each other to do deplorable things to women. This man has not got this ideology all on his own. Treating them the same way they would for people who use extremist forums. As a start.

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SquirryTheSquirrel · 13/08/2021 12:25

@WhenSheWasBad

The incel movement is scary. No idea what to do about it though.

If I were single, I'd be tempted to send one of these men a picture of myself in all my middle-aged lack of glory and offer to have a relationship with them.

I can tell you now I'd be safe from having to go through with it because I know what the answer would be.

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FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 13/08/2021 12:26

Incel is an ideology. So why isn’t this terrorism?

Exactly.

Answer: violence against women isn't considered nearly as important enough to do anything about

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Itsprobablynotcominghome · 13/08/2021 12:27

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FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 13/08/2021 12:28

Also everything @pontefractals said. There needs to be an active campaign to stop this movement.

It should also be formally recognised in safeguarding training for professionals working with children and vulnerable people, the way extreme terrorism and now far-right ideology is

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FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 13/08/2021 12:28

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

I don’t think white people can be terrorists?

Is this a joke?

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Itsprobablynotcominghome · 13/08/2021 12:29

It’s sarcasm.

But also, isn’t it true?

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SallyMcNally · 13/08/2021 12:30

I recommend reading Men who Hate Women to gain an understanding of incel and MRA terrorism. This is not an isolated incident but part of an extremist ideology that uses the same radicalisation tactics aa other forms of terrorism. We need to start taking it seriously.

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Ifonlyus · 13/08/2021 12:30

If it were treated as terrorism, it could at least feature as part of Prevent Training and potentially flag up the need for intervention.

I expect most of the public view this type of incident as being committed by a lone weirdo. Rather than it being part of a wider orchestrated movement spanning continents.

Isn't Laura Bates new book about this? She spoke at my DDs school and also addressed parents. Parents were warned to look out for their SONS as they are being groomed into this type of movement during former secondary school years. A lot can be done if the problem is acknowledged and named.

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StealthPolarBear · 13/08/2021 12:31

Ye s to all of this. This is terrorism, surely

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Ifonlyus · 13/08/2021 12:32

Sorry, sons was not intentionally put in to caps.

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Velvian · 13/08/2021 12:36

Yes, I agree, op. As soon as I read that it was 'not terror related' I had an inkling of what this was about and that it was terror related. It is an acceptable ideology that's the problem.

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Mummyoflittledragon · 13/08/2021 12:41

I agree violence against women is not taken seriously. The police are not joining up the dots.

So what can we do? Write to whom?

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Floogal · 13/08/2021 12:42

Why hasn't any one stopped to put 2 + 2 together? There is a surplus of heterosexual men! Not as bad as China and India, but still a surplus.
Saw this documentary about them few years ago. Apparently incel movement was started by this girl in 90s for people to vent about frustration. Sadly get few violent inadequate people who take over

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/08/2021 12:43

Isn't it the case that in most cases of terrorism the perpetrator also turns out to have been abusive and violent to his partner and often children and other family members first?

This is an appalling incident. The killer sounds like a petulant child from the odd bits quoted in media reports. How can anyone reach their early 20s and still be under the illusion that the world owes them a living and that they are entitled to all sorts of things they want, as of right?

The Guardian has this one:

“Maybe the business owner might go bankrupt twice … but guess what he had a wife and kids to support him. Does incel or virgin get that? No. Imagine failing at everything in life and having absolutely no support whatsoever.”

Horrifying that he had a gun licence.

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Iggly · 13/08/2021 12:43

@karasviper

Police saying this isn’t terrorist attack. Why? Definition on CPS website:

‘ Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

Examples include:

serious violence against a person or damage to property,
endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action),
creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public,
action designed to seriously interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.’

Incel is an ideology. So why isn’t this terrorism?

I would suggest that the definition of terrorism needs to change.

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Lockheart · 13/08/2021 12:45

Your headline is missing the important qualifier "reports say".

I would personally bet money that he was, but let's not start presenting rumour and speculation as fact until it's known.

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daisyjgrey · 13/08/2021 12:46

The sole reason this has not been called an act of terrorism, is because he was white. It's a shit show.

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ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 13/08/2021 12:48

I don’t think white people can be terrorists?

What the bloody hell do you think the IRA are then?

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