Plymouth mass shooter was an incel

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Reports say that Jake Davison, 23, who killed six people yesterday in Plymouth including himself, was part of the Incel movement. He's had a YouTube channel moaning about how I one wanted to have sex with him.

Well I'm not surprised unfortunately but the question is will ANYTHING be done about the violent misogyny that is ever prevalent these days from these types of men? Will mass action be taken against these incel groups the way extremist groups were targeted after other terrorist attacks? Or will this be fobbed off as a lone wolf and we will be told that men who despise women to the point of becoming violent are nothing to worry about?

Will women start being protected?

Place your bets please. I've got a funny feeling the answer is 'no'

Yes, he associated himself with - and espoused - incel ideas.

bylinetimes.com/2021/08/13/incels-the-radicalised-extremist-community-of-white-male-supremacists/?fbclid=IwAR0upRJesCD1wxL2n_GsbgUZCGzX6yv237BWP5aa0EaqojSK__vSa2MzxiY

Sorry meant to post this link:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/many-terrorists-abuse-women-research-extremist-attackers-violent-misogyny

sheldon how awful

He may have been an incel but this wasn't just violence against women-he also shot and killed 2 men, and injured another. Just in the interests of being factual.
Its very very sad, and he should not have been able to get hold of a gun.

To the PP mentioning the fact he also shot men.. yes, this is factually correct, but the mindset, the rage that brought him to be wielding a gun and willing to kill was (in all likelihood based on the Incel involvement, the fact he killed his mother etc) due to his misogyny.

The men were simply unfortunately caught up in that (probably, I’m assuming here that he did not know them).

[quote MercyBooth]@nettie434 A couple of months after Raoul Moat"s crimes Sam Baker wrote a very good article for Red magazine (she was the editor then) It was only in the print issue unfortunately.[/quote]
MercyBooth Unfortunately I missed that but so far as I remember, he was another example of someone whose violence towards his ex girlfriend was underplayed and who subsequently went on to brutally murder her boyfriend and injure a policeman.

The question of naming men like this is worth exploring. This was something Jacinda Ardern wanted with the Christchurch bomber. It worked insofar as I am concerned. I would definitely have to look up his name. These men often want notoriety and being treated as a martyr so I can see why there is some logic to this approach.

@Suddenlyredundantprobably

To the PP mentioning the fact he also shot men.. yes, this is factually correct, but the mindset, the rage that brought him to be wielding a gun and willing to kill was (in all likelihood based on the Incel involvement, the fact he killed his mother etc) due to his misogyny.

The men were simply unfortunately caught up in that (probably, I’m assuming here that he did not know them).

I don't think I've ever seen other terrorists be dismissed as not terrorists just because they also killed people outside of their main target group

Stop allowing men to have guns/licences. They can’t be trusted.

Medusa, quite. I entirely agree. I hope you didn’t think my post was inferring that.

Laura Bates on C4 news just now.

Joan Smith also wrote a really good book Home Grown: How Domestic Violence Turns Men Into Terrorists.

She also wrote a recent piece in the gardian called What do many terrorists have in common? They abuse women. It's based on the thesis of her book.

Just seen a social media post of his that suggests he was autistic. I got deleted the last time I said that there is a real problem with some autistic young men living within their delusional fantasies online but I believe there is. I'm autistic myself and it scares me. Not sure what the answer is. I know autism services are really stretched.

@Suddenlyredundantprobably

Medusa, quite. I entirely agree. I hope you didn’t think my post was inferring that.

Oh absolutely not, I was agreeing with you.

@catzwhiskas

Stop allowing men to have guns/licences. They can’t be trusted.

The police returned his gun and license to him last month after removing it in September 2020 because of an allegation of assault.

Jules my ds is autistic. When he was assessed I was told if he did the assessment and was diagnosed he'd never be able to join the armed forces and had to sign to accept that.

I think the fact they can't is because of the risks with the intense focus on subjects and beliefs in some people with autism and how vulnerable they can be to influence for various reasons.

@Brainstorm21

I agree! I dont think there should be a media blackout on the crime itself. But we should refuse to publish the name of the perpetrator as a headline. It should be mentioned once in the small text not the subheading. And they should be referred to as 'shooter', 'murderer' etc throughout the text.

Even this MN post text with his name annoys me.

It absolutely does my head in that when I think back to tragic events I can only ever remember the name of the perpetrator, never the victim.

The only victims I can remember are ones who we didnt know the perpetrator at all, or for years later - ie. Madeleine Mcan and Amanda Dowler

What amazes me is that incel forums are in plain sight.
He posted frequently on Reddit, on an incel sub. If anyone dares go on Reddit and post something likd ‘people with penises are men’ or ‘I hate all [insert race or faith] people then they are removed.
Yet incel comments are allowed to stay.
If someone has extremist views and post them online then they are usually tracked yet incels are just seen as harmless weirdos.
If this was a Muslim person posting similar views they would have a knock at the door.

And yes he did kill men also, but then they hate men that they see as being against them, Chads they call them.

There was an interview on Radio 4 Today with Jonathan Hall QC, the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation (on at 8.11, 71 minutes in) in which he referred to a case in Scotland in which an incel supporting man was convicted of terrorism. A second charge was not proven:

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-student-jailed-ten-years-after-terrorism-trial-3093178

The presenter, Sarah Smith, also mentioned that earlier in the programme Sir Peter Fahey, the former Chief Constable of Manchester, said right wing terrorism was currently a more severe problem than Islamic terrorism, and that definitions needed broadening. I missed that so not sure when that was on but would guess round about 10 minutes or possibly 30 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000yt6j

An excerpt from the Telegraph this morning. The emphasis in bold is mine. I'm just sorry that it came to this first.

"A Whitehall source said that the Home Office produced papers in 2019, via the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre, that classified incel culture as a threat, defining it as political violence and terrorism.

Campaigners on Friday night called for police to reverse a decision not to treat the killings as terrorism.

Laura Bates, of the Everyday Sexism project, said that we “are talking about an individual radicalised online into an extremist belief system who then acted on those beliefs to massacre people. This is terrorism. It is extremism. It is radicalisation.

“Repeated news reports, police and politicians all saying this is not terror-related. This is shocking and shameful. Extremist misogyny, male supremacy, sees women die all over the world, including repeatedly in incel massacres. We cannot tackle it if we do not name it.”

A Whitehall source said the Government should be considering the Plymouth shooting as an act of terrorism and should be looking to formally proscribe incel groups, treating the websites with the same severity as Islamist and Right-wing extremism."

That's interesting @TedsFederationRep. Do you think that if he'd attacked only women it would be taken more seriously as terror-related? Incels might fundamentally hate women, but many also hate 'successful' (in whatever form that takes) men.

@OhRene

The incel movement infuriates me - chiefly because it presents as 'no women will have sex with us' but what it actually means is 'no women of the level of attractiveness we deem worthy will have sex with us'.

I have a very dear male friend who is now in his 40"s and is still a virgin. He is a lovely bloke but not model material I'm afraid. That's fine though because looks aren't necessarily the be all and end all. Except they are to him. He won't even look at anyone who isn't stunningly beautiful. If she's not Kiera Knightly, Emilia Clarke or Meghan Fox level he won't even make a move.

I adore my friend (platonically) but to him it's the women who are shallow and he would be an Incel. I can see how this happens. Fragile male egos getting angry that we won't comply.

I have a friend just like this too. 40, quite clever, good job, sort of normal looking. He's been after a partner since I knew him in our 20s but is insanely fussy and gets upset every so often that he's single. He's a dangerous combination of super arrogant (he thinks he's the cleverest person around) and low-confidence. It's hard to explain!

I have to say it is a small comfort to know that women simply won't lower themselves to dating these appalling men. Once upon a time some classes of women married whomever they could get to marry them or else they'd end up destitute, in a 'poor house' or even a 'whore house'. Marrying a deplorable man was the lesser of many evils, and I'm pleased that now life isn't like that and we can give them as wide a berth as we like

I have a friend just like this too. 40, quite clever, good job, sort of normal looking. He's been after a partner since I knew him in our 20s but is insanely fussy and gets upset every so often that he's single. He's a dangerous combination of super arrogant (he thinks he's the cleverest person around) and low-confidence. It's hard to explain

Sounds like someone I know! They’re quite brittle - seem quite “hard” but doesn’t take much for them to crack.

I wonder if it’s a lack of emotional development, or not forming proper “in person” relationships (in the broadest sense) and living far too much online.

I had to google, 'Incel'. There must be many people who are celibate who would like to have a relationship but don't commit murder.