Plymouth mass shooter was an incel

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Reports say that Jake Davison, 23, who killed six people yesterday in Plymouth including himself, was part of the Incel movement. He's had a YouTube channel moaning about how I one wanted to have sex with him.

Well I'm not surprised unfortunately but the question is will ANYTHING be done about the violent misogyny that is ever prevalent these days from these types of men? Will mass action be taken against these incel groups the way extremist groups were targeted after other terrorist attacks? Or will this be fobbed off as a lone wolf and we will be told that men who despise women to the point of becoming violent are nothing to worry about?

Will women start being protected?

Place your bets please. I've got a funny feeling the answer is 'no'

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

It’s sarcasm.

But also, isn’t it true?

What a ridiculous claim. You must be very young

Examples that refute this (just off the top of my head)
IRA
The red brigade
Red Army faction/Bader Meinhoff
Front de libération du Québec
Terra Lliure ( TLL), Spain/Catalonia
The Jewish defence league
FALN, "Armed Forces of National Liberation" and loads more in South America
Chechnyan Separatists

I could go on ....

After WW1, there was a significant imbalance between numbers of young single women and young single men. This was regarded as a social problem and there were disparaging references to 'surplus women' and even 'superflous women'. Hundreds of thousands of women never married as a result. Many others had been widowed and did not re-marry. Did they turn to violence? No. They turned to and worked hard to support themselves and in many cases other family members. They made careers in teaching, nursing and office work, and anything else they were allowed to do. They stepped in to help family and friends with childcare and care of elderly and disabled people, and they took on organising and hands on roles in all sorts of voluntary and community work.

ww1centenary.oucs.ox.ac.uk/unconventionalsoldiers/%E2%80%98surplus-women%E2%80%99-a-legacy-of-world-war-one/ (This link says it's unsafe but it appears to be from Oxford University, so I risked it.)

Prevent, and government strategy does recognise incel terrorism, although this is a fairly recent development.

The issue is people, the police, courts and press identifying it for what it is. The police were very quick to rule out terrorism when a quick look at this guys online footprint should raise questions.

@Ifonlyus

Laura's book 'Men who Hate women' is exactly about this.
It is excellent, and one chapter covers the section when she went into schools and the sorts of things she heard young boys saying.

While it is chilling to hear how these views spread among young teens, it is also full of suggestions from a range of experts on how to combat these views from taking hold into later teenage years and adulthood

I really recommend anyone interested in this topic reads the book, it is very eye opening

@bumblingbovine49 isn't the point being made here that too often other explanations or labels are used for white people committing acts of terror as a lone actor?

@PronounssheRa

Prevent, and government strategy does recognise incel terrorism, although this is a fairly recent development.

The issue is people, the police, courts and press identifying it for what it is. The police were very quick to rule out terrorism when a quick look at this guys online footprint should raise questions.

But I think you need to prove that its definitely linked - so if he left a post or note that he was going to do this for that reason.

You need to rule out that this wasn't done for another reason - anger, domestic issues, a mental break down etc

apple.news/AEBjUhiSURNu775YAafXlJg

Latest report from Sky news.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

The reluctance to label white mass shooters as terrorists is a US phenomenon, isn't it? This in spite of the fact that most mass killings in the US have been carried out by white men or teenage boys.

Did that strategy start roughly 20 years ago? Seems to have been a pretty successful reframing, hell of a lot of people buy in to it unquestioningly. A poster on the other thread summed it up nicely (I paraphrase…):

‘Black - Gang Related
Brown - Terrorist
White - Suffering Mental Illness’

But I think you need to prove that its definitely linked - so if he left a post or note that he was going to do this for that reason
You need to rule out that this wasn't done for another reason - anger, domestic issues, a mental break down etc

You’re not wrong, and you’d think that determining those things would take some time, be a thorough process etc. And yet, just a few short hours after the incident Devon and Cornwall PCC, Shaun Sawyer has said (from the Telegraph) that:
‘incident is domestically related’ that ‘spilled out on to the street’ and has ‘no motive’.

How long until this is all blamed on a woman somehow? She'll have shunned, spurned, cheated on or left him. He'll have been heartbroken and taken leave of his senses, poor lamb.

But I think you need to prove that its definitely linked - so if he left a post or note that he was going to do this for that reason.

Do we? Do all Islamic terrorists leave a note explaining their motives, or do the police make judgements based on associations, online activity and ideological influence. It strikes me they were very quick to jump to 'not terrorism' before they did any investigation in this case.

But I think you need to prove that its definitely linked - so if he left a post or note that he was going to do this for that reason.

You need to rule out that this wasn't done for another reason - anger, domestic issues, a mental break down etc

Thing is that's usually the reasons people get radicalised. It's not so much and either/ or but rather what they decide to label it as.

No one but he himself knows if he shot them and himself through anger or he was angry enough to shoot because of the incel connection or he joined incel because of his anger.

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public

It may not be the former but I would argue it is the latter.

It is intimidating to me that someone who thinks he is owed sex/preferential treatment from beautiful women or indeed any woman he chooses should kill because he isn’t getting his own way.

I’m an ugly fat woman in my 50s so am unlikely to be what they want. If I didn’t sleep with someone back in the day I got called anything from ungrateful, frigid or a stuck up slag.

Not princely I grant you. But wounded pride didn’t mean people got killed or wounded.

I’m approx your age. I got this too. The western world seems to be full of entitled people, much more so than when I was young. Back there there was still entitlement. But with a lack of organisation, networking and endless internet etc, it never went anywhere and people grew up, moved on.

I feel like I have taken the red pill now and see the way society colludes to hide male violence against women and girls. It was only about three years ago and I am 48 and have also been the victim on male violence and still I didn’t see it. But once seen, never unseen.

If the Taliban were on message boards telling British men to go into a school & kill children before killing themselves you can bloody bet your ass the Police would be looking into this.

But because Incels are seen as a bunch of sad losers who are butt hurt after not being able to get a girlfriend they are not taking this terror threat seriously.

Toronto was awful and now a fucking 3 year old girl has been slain in the street!!

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@bumblingbovine49 isn't the point being made here that too often other explanations or labels are used for white people committing acts of terror as a lone actor? [/quote]
ah I see, slightly too subtle for me obviously!. I just assumed it meant that white people were never called terrorists. obviously I am too literal!

I agree that lone actors committing violent crimes like this (and yes pretty much always the white ones) are rarely labelled terrorists

For what it is worth I think this guy fits the definition given by a PP of a terrorist. He aligns himself with an ideology that advocates violence to further its aims and he participates in that violence. That is pretty much a terrorist.

@StealthPolarBear

How long until this is all blamed on a woman somehow? She'll have shunned, spurned, cheated on or left him. He'll have been heartbroken and taken leave of his senses, poor lamb.

Or it'll be his mums fault somehow.

The incel movement infuriates me - chiefly because it presents as 'no women will have sex with us' but what it actually means is 'no women of the level of attractiveness we deem worthy will have sex with us'.

I have a very dear male friend who is now in his 40"s and is still a virgin. He is a lovely bloke but not model material I'm afraid. That's fine though because looks aren't necessarily the be all and end all. Except they are to him. He won't even look at anyone who isn't stunningly beautiful. If she's not Kiera Knightly, Emilia Clarke or Meghan Fox level he won't even make a move.

I adore my friend (platonically) but to him it's the women who are shallow and he would be an Incel. I can see how this happens. Fragile male egos getting angry that we won't comply.

There was even a whole TV series called "Murderers and their mothers" that sought to blame the mothers. The Yorkshire ripper and I think another was Michael Ryan had doting mothers and fathers who were violent to women..They tried to blame the doting mothers

It seems to me that Devon and Cornwall Police Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer needs to read 'Men Who Hate women'. In fact there are a lot of people I can think of who could read it and hopefully have their eyes opened.
I'm 3/4 of the way through it atm and it is chilling reading, I only read it in short bursts.

mummyoflittledragon

Well put.

Organised entitlement. Endorsed by politicians.

Well, someone needs to work out how to deal with it, whether it is terrorism or not. I've banned one of my son's class mates from the house (aged 14) because I heard him spouting vile vicious porn related rubbish, and refusing to stop even when ds pleaded with him to shut up.
The boy's dad is raising him to think only Keira Knightly and a Range Rocer sport will do. He's already angry.

Reading more and more news it appears the original victim was known to him and the rest were random and a "spillover" before he shot himself.

What questions need to be asked is how someone who posts like he does online could get a gun licence as recently as last year.

Surely anyone who actually has a licence should be monitored and have it revoked if they show any sort of behaviour that allies them to an extreme group. In this case he's aligned himself to incel.

I am half way through reading Laura Bates book and immediately suspected a link when I saw the news story. Came on here to find out. Lo and behold...

That PCC response is straight out of the play book, as is the likely blaming of a woman / painting of him as a victim 'driven to it' that is due next.

I was listening to a radio programme about the link between VAWG and later terrorist/violent behaviour the other day. I didn't hear the introduction but I'm pretty certain it was Laura Bates, whoever was talking had just written a book.

She was talking about the link between DV and terrorism. She mentioned a specific case of a young man who had been on the prevent list because he attacked a girl at his school. Later on he was removed and shortly after he committed an incel like crime. Really wish I could remember more of the details now.

But essentially she was saying that many of these crimes could be stopped if we took VAWG seriously.

This is an appalling case, those poor women. And a three year old!!!! Just awful.

The government/police really need to step up and start connecting the dots.