Plymouth mass shooter was an incel

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Reports say that Jake Davison, 23, who killed six people yesterday in Plymouth including himself, was part of the Incel movement. He's had a YouTube channel moaning about how I one wanted to have sex with him.

Well I'm not surprised unfortunately but the question is will ANYTHING be done about the violent misogyny that is ever prevalent these days from these types of men? Will mass action be taken against these incel groups the way extremist groups were targeted after other terrorist attacks? Or will this be fobbed off as a lone wolf and we will be told that men who despise women to the point of becoming violent are nothing to worry about?

Will women start being protected?

Place your bets please. I've got a funny feeling the answer is 'no'

The Incel 'community' isn't even that far underground. It's in plain sight on some of the more conventional social media platforms. Including one which fairly recently banned its GC sub.

The damaging stuff that was allowed to stand about women, remained unchallenged, and as far as I know, is still there on that site.

Tells you all you need to know.

It would come under the LASIT group of terrorists (left wing, anarchist and single issue/ideology terrorism). The other groups are right wing and international terrorists.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

The Incel 'community' isn't even that far underground. It's in plain sight on some of the more conventional social media platforms. Including one which fairly recently banned its GC sub.

The damaging stuff that was allowed to stand about women, remained unchallenged, and as far as I know, is still there on that site.

Tells you all you need to know.

This is so true and very alarming because the community are essentially 'low hanging fruit', an easy win and STILL it's not enough to take action.

I do wonder if a man-hating woman went in a shooting rampage how that response would be

@SallyMcNally

I recommend reading Men who Hate Women to gain an understanding of incel and MRA terrorism. This is not an isolated incident but part of an extremist ideology that uses the same radicalisation tactics aa other forms of terrorism. We need to start taking it seriously.

Agree

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

After WW1, there was a significant imbalance between numbers of young single women and young single men. This was regarded as a social problem and there were disparaging references to 'surplus women' and even 'superflous women'. Hundreds of thousands of women never married as a result. Many others had been widowed and did not re-marry. Did they turn to violence? No. They turned to and worked hard to support themselves and in many cases other family members. They made careers in teaching, nursing and office work, and anything else they were allowed to do. They stepped in to help family and friends with childcare and care of elderly and disabled people, and they took on organising and hands on roles in all sorts of voluntary and community work.

ww1centenary.oucs.ox.ac.uk/unconventionalsoldiers/%E2%80%98surplus-women%E2%80%99-a-legacy-of-world-war-one/ (This link says it's unsafe but it appears to be from Oxford University, so I risked it.)

Your post needs framing Gasp0de, not just quoting. That generation of women achieved so much, even though they were 'involuntarily celibate' because they either lost husbands or fiances in the First World War (or influenza epidemic) or never had opportunities to establish a relationship.

Whatever happens in the US, I profoundly disagree that ethnicity influences definitions of terrorism in Europe. Terrorism is based on collective violence by individuals. Incels may share beliefs but they commit horrific crimes as individuals. Other posters have also listed all the terrorist groups dominated by white people. It's also important to remember the unionist terrorists in Northern Ireland, not just the various republican groups.

I think there is a huge need to tackle misogyny. As these individuals are mostly radicalised online, I would like to see more attempts to hold Facebook and other social media companies responsible for publishing web content. I also think we need to look at the parallels between men who could be classified as incels and men who are 'family annihilators'. I think they might have some common characteristics.

You need to rule out that this wasn't done for another reason - anger, domestic issues, a mental break down etc.

I’m not up to date on all the info and rumours about this particular atrocity, but why do we need to rule out any kind of precipitating issues before we can consider whether an attack should be called terrorism? The question is whether the perpetrator acted to intimidate the public and to advance an ideology. If a murderer was angry with a particular woman or women, that doesn’t automatically mean he didn’t also carry out his crimes to advance a wider ideology of misogyny.

I haven’t seen any evidence in the media that this particular crime meets the terrorism criteria, but I’m also not sure how the police can be definitive at this stage that this was not the case. Surely they need to dig into his background a bit first?

Assuming this wasn’t terrorism as defined by the government, there’s still the question of whether misogyny was a factor in the crime. The irony is that under English law not only is misogyny not an aggravating factor, but in practice it often seems to be a mitigating one, as defendants blame “sex gone wrong” “crime of passion” “relationship issues” etc etc.

@3ormorecharacters

What I find remarkable is that it's always a man. Like, even before any other details are released, you can bet your house that it's a man. Regardless of whether they're an Incel / Muslim / Nazi / IRA etc it's always a man. Surely this is a man problem and we need to be looking at why men have such aggression? If it was any other group committing these atrocities with such regularity we'd have gone to war with them.

Yes. And yet even on mumsnet you get women leaping in with “ women are killers too!” Etc.

I don’t think he was an Incel or that incels ordered him to carry out an attack. There is no evidence of that.

Incel = involuntary celibate. The YouTube videos seem to confirm that's what he believed himself to be.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I don’t think he was an Incel or that incels ordered him to carry out an attack. There is no evidence of that.

There is literally swathes of it.

He subscribed to Incel TV (and how the hell is that a thing??) he was an incel.

metro.co.uk/2021/08/13/plymouth-shooting-jake-davidsons-youtube-videos-detail-sick-views-15086125/

This is typical incel stuff - references to Chads, women being described as “simple minded & not all that bright”,

Baffled as to why some ppl seem so desperate that he isn’t seen as an incel

I just found his profile/posts on another forum. He is an incel without a doubt. They are incel forums.

Its very sad.

A quick dig and you will find it but before anyone asks I am not sharing, sorry.

I went down the rabbit hole earlier after someone posted his Reddit name online. He posted in a lot of incel sub -reddits.

Just on the firearms point, there must be at least a few weeks' processing time for a licence. Do they not Google people during that time? I'm guessing not .

He apparently blamed his mother for his failings and still being a virgin. These incels very much have form for blaming the nearest woman.

Something needs to be done to tackle misogyny and it needs to start with naming misogyny as the motive

@nettie434 A couple of months after Raoul Moat"s crimes Sam Baker wrote a very good article for Red magazine (she was the editor then) It was only in the print issue unfortunately.

I would agree with an earlier poster re the effect of porn on these men. I suspect he’s porn addled, unable to sustain erection to have sex with a woman even if he did find someone of a ‘high enough’ standard willing to have sex with him.
Porn, misogyny and living a life online.
How awful for all his victims. I wonder if the first woman he murdered was his mum

I've just done prevent training today and incel was one of the things mentioned as a huge red flag for potential extremist behaviour.

It was Ghislainedefeligonde

I really wish the media would stop reporting these shootings in detail. To my kind it's what the criminal who perpetrated this terrible crime wanted. The media should not name the people who commit these acts or publicise their horrible views. Thoughts anyone?

He apparently blamed his mother for his failings and still being a virgin. These incels very much have form for blaming the nearest woman.

It isn’t just incels. I was blamed for ‘upsetting’ my bully enough to make him bully me for 4 years.

I work in a male dominated environment. I quite often get blamed for their errors. And when pointing out i am not wrong and they were at fault, you get ‘hysterical/ragweek/typical woman’ thrown back.

You bring up unacceptable behaviour? ‘She needs to grow a fucking thicker skin’

Oh and you will know that my bully got a golden handshake and a stain free reputation. I have been left with his ridiculous and dangerous allegations on my file. No promotion, gossip and side eyes about my ‘reputation’.

For some men it will ALWAYS be our fault.

Nothing will be done about these sad losers because, time and time again, we see women beaten, abused, terrorised, stalked and sadly murdered and the sentences passed, if they catch the beasts who carry out the crimes, are usually pathetic. Whether we like it or not, men still rule the world and, until this changes, then women's lives will continue to be thought of as less valuable than men's.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

He apparently blamed his mother for his failings and still being a virgin. These incels very much have form for blaming the nearest woman.

Something needs to be done to tackle misogyny and it needs to start with naming misogyny as the motive

I've just read it was his mother who he shot first.

That explains why they said domestic incident.

@Brainstorm21 I'm afraid I disagree especially about your last part. People find out about these type of men and how to spot them because it's discussed. A media blackout would do more harm than good.

It absolutely should be considered terrorism and increasingly it is

Even more important perhaps -- a history of domestic violence/misogyny can be seen in terrorists across the ideological spectrum, e.g. also jihadist and right-wing terrorists.

So it's not just about reducing incel violence, it's about reducing all terrorist violence