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Feminism: chat

Can you help me compile a list of tasks that are emotional labour/life admin?

281 replies

PetticoatSoldier · 18/06/2021 19:23

I’m trying to write a comprehensive list of every job that comes under the emotional labour/life and home admin banner so I can share it with DH.

We share physical housework tasks and childcare equally but we were talking recently and he said something about “everything” being split equally and I pointed out that no actually, “everything” is not. So, now he has offered to take his fare share, I am trying to write a list of everything I can possibly think of to ensure the load is evenly split 😀 Can you help?

I’ll post what I have in comments or else this OP will be massive!

OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 21/06/2021 08:42

Yes! That's it. I can't find the spreadsheet, which is called 'The Shit I do' or podcast either, but the book was by Eve Rodsky, and there's cards that go with it. Presumably all the tasks are on the cards and you and your partner take an equal number of cards and those are your jobs.

www.everodsky.com/buy-book

Triffid1 · 21/06/2021 09:41

@Grellbunt

Well the reality is, whether we like it or not, that a lot of kids would spend their days eating biscuits in front of the xbox if it were left entirely up to their dads.

Will lists like these help?

They are certainly ammunition to shove in front of the noses of the people who claim that "life admin/emotional labour" isn't a big thing. And the divorce courts.

I think that raising awareness does help. There are plenty of men who, if they fully understood what was happening, would make more effort - DH is one of them. The challenge is getting them to see it, and to appreciate its importance, in the first place.

eg Dh has always left birthdays to me. Over the years, there have been conversations (or arguments, depending) where he will say any one or more of, "I'll buy the present" (even though he hasn't even clocked it's DS' birthday so it's clearly a lie), "I can go to the shops [the day before] and buy DS' presents" (completely missing issues of needing to order gifts etc), "Tell me what i need to do" (because of course I must still do the thinking). All of this exacerbated by him then getting annoyed at times because I'm asking/talking/discussing logistics/details/presents/parties/guests/dates/whatever and he's bored of the conversation/s.

Now, I STILL do all the birthdays but 1. he is actively engaged whenever I discuss it with him and accepts this is something he needs to provide input on 2. He 100% gets it and will compensate in other ways - eg realising that I've been doing it all so he needs to, on the day, do all the cleaning up/tidying etc or whatever and 3. When I do ask him to do something he does it immediately without that initial instinct to think, "why should I do this? It's inconvenient/irritating". I think 3 is the one I appreciate the most.

guinnessguzzler · 21/06/2021 17:57

'Tell me what I need to do' is tricky too. There is a line in Frozen Two where Kristoff, who I think we can all agree is more or less the ideal, appears and says, 'I'm here, what do you need?'. In the context, it is exactly the right thing for him to say but in most household contexts the answer to that would be 'I need you to use your own brain to figure out what I need and not expect me to do all the thinking you lazy fucker' or similar. So, as often, context is everything.

guinnessguzzler · 21/06/2021 17:59

And actually, it shouldn't even be 'figure out what I need' but rather 'figure out what is needed by our shared family'. That's the problem.

Graphista · 21/06/2021 20:18

I agree - he should know or it should at least occur to him to make the effort to figure it out, but there's also the tendency in some women towards martyrdom or needing to be needed which means they don't allow the man to learn to take on the mental load.

This also ties in with the expectation that a task be performed perfectly.

Most of the time it's not the end of the world if it's not - as long as that imperfection is not maintained!

Eg ex had a bad habit with doing the dishes early on of not remembering to collect up the umpteen cups of half drunk coffee on HIS desk, I let it slide at first but after first couple times (we took it in turns to cook/do dishes, whoever cooked the other cleaned up) I made it very clear I was not going to pick up his slack. If it was deliberate he was taking the piss, if it wasn't he was being thoughtless. He had favourite mugs too so I stopped washing his up. He soon stopped this nonsense and remembered to make sure he had all the dishes to hand when starting the dishes.

Another similar one was fetching laundry off the line, he'd forget to take the peg bag out and just dump it all in the basket expecting me to then put the pegs in the bag when I next put out washing. Put him straight on that one too

The mental load is a crucial part of any task, they should be doing that part too

Well the reality is, whether we like it or not, that a lot of kids would spend their days eating biscuits in front of the xbox if it were left entirely up to their dads

Not true of all dads in my experience. On occasion maybe but not as a regular thing.

My dad was abusive in our later childhood but when we were primary age he was great. My mum worked in retail as it meant she could work school hours in the week and weekends when dad could watch us and they didn't have to organise/pay out for childcare (money was tight).

Dad would be the one to get us up of a weekend morning, make sure we did our "ablutions" (teeth, hair, face) did our breakfast (cooked on a sat cold on a Sunday) lunches, and started dinner just before mum got in by at least peeling and prepping veg. During the day he'd play with us, build stuff for us, teach us stuff like bike riding or swimming or we'd go on walks and he'd show us which plants/berries were safe to eat etc he'd walk the legs off us! (He was very fit himself at this stage) even winter/rain was no excuse he'd wrap us up in coats and wellies and we'd go on a "stomp" through puddles and snow.

Ex's dad also did lots with them of a weekend even though by time ex was born his mum was a Sahm full time. Very similar to us, bike rides, walks, swimming etc he'd make them picnics up or ensure they are something sensible while out

My uncles were all the same with their dc too, when they had the dc at weekends or during school holidays due to parents splitting leave to cover them they'd get the kids up, washed, dressed, fed when needed, occupied with sensible activities...

And they all made sure the house was tidy before the mum got home too, though I'll admit sometimes it was a frantic "shit this place looks like a bombs hit it, better tidy up or my wife won't be impressed" clean and tidy but I also well remember dad doing loads of laundry and ironing, mum
did the grocery shopping right after work as she had a staff discount (in those days only the staff member could do the shop to get that) but we'd meet mum at the shop and dad would take the heavy items and carry them, mum would have next heaviest in a granny trolley and we kids would carry lighter items in bags.

Not all dads are completely useless and not all dads even "back in the day" (bear in mind I'm 48 so my parents and uncles all born 40's and 50's except one born in 60's)

I agree there's a lot they don't think of and don't organise but I think we need to be careful not to totally write them off as that just plays into the hands of the worst ones.

@Triffid1 ex and I had similar arguments about birthdays. Both while married and also after the split. Dds birthday is shortly after Xmas so we have to be organised. This was especially true during the "must have gift" years as otherwise they'd be sold out! But also from a budgeting perspective. He thought I was crazy starting saving in July and planning in sep, after we split he wrong footed me on several occasions when he'd absolutely promises to get - or even not get - a particular thing and leave it to the last bloody min resulting in expense and stress for me and on occasion distress for dd. I quickly learned he couldn't be relied on after first couple Xmas after split and stopped worrying about if his nose was out of joint cos I'd got dd the "must have" thing and he had also got it by pure luck the day before he saw her!

Some of the gifts he got her as she got older were age inappropriate or otherwise totally not something she would ever want or use and she was really hurt at the lack of thought and consideration (he mostly got her things his sons would have really liked)

"Figure out what your kid needs" in my case

copperpotsalot · 21/06/2021 20:20

Maintaining the support network is a huge task that men don't seem to do well, if at all.

I.e. Knowing which mum works which days and who, if you have Timmy for her after football on a Tuesday, is happy to have Jonny for you before swimming on a weds.

Taking a bottle of wine round if favours have been a bit more on the take side than the give in the past week or so.

Setting up a Whatsapp group to share lifts to hockey games.. etc etc

You don't just turn to a random parent in the playground and ask for a favour, it's all carefully cultivated

Grellbunt · 21/06/2021 20:31

@copperpotsalot

Maintaining the support network is a huge task that men don't seem to do well, if at all.

I.e. Knowing which mum works which days and who, if you have Timmy for her after football on a Tuesday, is happy to have Jonny for you before swimming on a weds.

Taking a bottle of wine round if favours have been a bit more on the take side than the give in the past week or so.

Setting up a Whatsapp group to share lifts to hockey games.. etc etc

You don't just turn to a random parent in the playground and ask for a favour, it's all carefully cultivated

Haha that'll be why I don't have one! This side of things is a mystery to me. I hate asking folk for help.
copperpotsalot · 21/06/2021 20:41

@Grellbunt I hated it too but it was essential really especially over school holidays and with working full time. I found that offering help first meant that asking wasn't quite so awkward.

Grellbunt · 21/06/2021 20:43

I've been very fortunate to have been different help but not much and it has limited my life a lot. I've always been jealous of those who shared childcare etc - I just assumed it was because I didn't have any good female friends!!

BikeRunSki · 21/06/2021 21:12

@copperpotsalot

Maintaining the support network is a huge task that men don't seem to do well, if at all.

I.e. Knowing which mum works which days and who, if you have Timmy for her after football on a Tuesday, is happy to have Jonny for you before swimming on a weds.

Taking a bottle of wine round if favours have been a bit more on the take side than the give in the past week or so.

Setting up a Whatsapp group to share lifts to hockey games.. etc etc

You don't just turn to a random parent in the playground and ask for a favour, it's all carefully cultivated

This in spades. Totally unquantifiable and has saved our backs many times.
TrainedByCats · 21/06/2021 21:28

@copperpotsalot

Maintaining the support network is a huge task that men don't seem to do well, if at all.

I.e. Knowing which mum works which days and who, if you have Timmy for her after football on a Tuesday, is happy to have Jonny for you before swimming on a weds.

Taking a bottle of wine round if favours have been a bit more on the take side than the give in the past week or so.

Setting up a Whatsapp group to share lifts to hockey games.. etc etc

You don't just turn to a random parent in the playground and ask for a favour, it's all carefully cultivated

This is so true and whilst I really appreciated that my friends would pitch in whenever I had to travel I was aware it made it all rather easy for my husband and I had the additional work to do the reciprocal favours
Graphista · 21/06/2021 22:35

@copperpotsalot and @Grellbunt

Yep essential to smooth parenting especially as a single parent. One of my closest friends we met at our dds' nursery and both being single mums gradually worked out a system of helping each other.

You definitely have to give as well as take though, which I was more than happy to do. She has 3 and I have 1 and she felt guilty sometimes as I was watching more "extra" dc than her but as I said to her it's swings and roundabouts as yes it's more dc for making meals etc but also a group of dc occupy each other, at this age when I had dd myself I was having to occupy her myself which could be tricky. And dd loved having friends dc around. She told me (though she coulda been lying/exaggerating I hope not) that she barely noticed my dd was there at here as the 2 girls would just entertain each other and be fine and no bother.

The girls are still close to each other and I'm close to all the dc as well as friend, we don't live near each other now but keep up with phone calls and sm and visits when we can

Beancounter1 · 22/06/2021 20:32

I don't think anyone has mentioned keeping a list of postal addresses and updating when family members move house, so that you can send physical birthday/Christmas/other greetings cards.

Beancounter1 · 22/06/2021 20:39

cleaning/polishing children's shoes

collecting post from the mat and sorting into recipient piles, putting junk mail in recycling - okay not a big thing, but I do this every day out of habit, DH then has his post put on the table in front of him without any junk or mine mixed in

chickenyhead · 22/06/2021 20:55

God there is soooo much I do without quantifying.

Yes to knowing friends parents re safety.

Moral guidance for DC with friendship issues etc.

Detecting changes in DC mood and approaching appropriately.

Ordering sharps boxes, collecting of sharps boxes. Checking dates on medications, food etc etc.

Changing mattresses and other household items when past their best, arranging heavy goods collection as needed. Timing both accordingly.

Organisation and clearing of the bits and pieces drawer, where all of those essential
little things go that have occasional use but no true home.

Clearing and reorganising cupboards urgh

Setting up games consoles and the nightmare of my life...ensuring a constant housewife high quality WiFi signal at all costs. Including knowing the passwords for EVERYTHING

Batteries

Chargers

Ormally · 22/06/2021 21:26

Printer ink. Realising it needs buying. Finding it in stock somewhere, ideally online.
Getting hold of deceptively simple sounding things like PE trainers (white and not decorated) and winter coat (black) - no logos - at the appropriate point before they get sold out but when the sizes will be suitable.
Longer term bus/travel pass and how not to lose it. Purchase of advance train tickets when needed.
Keeping sanpro stocks for daughters.
Cleaning the fish tank.
Anything to do with planning for eating/sleeping when camping or self-catering (though not usually the parts involving bikes, bike racks, kayaks...)
Planning for operations such as home carpet cleaning.

1Endeavour2 · 23/06/2021 09:36

Checking what food in the store cupboards needs using up and which ones are running low.

Doing the tough stuff like telling DH that if we continue supporting our 30 and 40 something year old children that they will never get jobs if we keep subsiding and housing them. Sticking with the plan. Arranging and updating our wills to reflect changing situation.
Getting rid of brothel which has been operating via Airbb in our upmarket Modern apartment block in Cambridge. Forcing police etc to take notice.
Buying the premium bonds to win enough money to get out of here. In fact thinking about everything that needs to be done over the years and is a really hard job.

orinocosfavoritecake · 23/06/2021 10:21

Worrying about the kids. Are they falling behind at school? Are they bored at school? Are they lonely? Are they being bullied? When’s their next haircut/dentists’ appointment due? Are they due any vaccinations? Shouldn’t they know how to ride a bike/swim by now? Should they be doing team sports? Are they overscheduled? Are they getting enough sleep? Are they resilient enough? Are they kind - to their friends, to themselves?

I like this UA Fanthorpe poem:

There is a kind of love called maintenance
Which stores the WD40 and knows when to use it

Which checks the insurance, and doesnt forget
The milkman; which remembers to plant bulbs;

Which answers letters; which knows the way
The money goes; which deals with dentists

And Road Fund Tax and meeting trains,
And postcards to the lonely; which upholds

The permanently rickety elaborate
Structures of living, which is Atlas.

And maintenance is the sensible side of love,
Which knows what time and weather are doing
To my brickwork; insulates my faulty wiring;
Laughs at my dryrotten jokes; remembers
My need for gloss and grouting; which keeps
My suspect edifice upright in air,
As Atlas did the sky.

guinnessguzzler · 23/06/2021 10:45

That poem is brilliant, never come across it before, thank you.

chickenyhead · 23/06/2021 14:03

In addition to knowing every password off the top of your head, finding anything lost by anyone in the house, from one school shoe found under the trampoline, to one bluetooth earbud lost god knows where.

Odd sock hunting, storage, destruction.

Knowing where absolutely everything is to square footage, especially seasonal items.

Noticing dust on lampshades etc. Removing dust above eye level.

Homework, and reading the copious communications from 3 different schools as to who needs what, when etc

Cobbling together urgent late notice junk for school, from costumes to plastic spoons at 9pm the day before, when not detailed in the copious communication from the three schools.

Noticing everything that needs doing, from cleaning the fridge door, to descaling. My exdh just couldn't see things apparently.

Ensuring that there is toilet roll.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/06/2021 19:01

Have read this thread nodding along with it all.

I think elderly parents got a mention a few pages back, but I think it's worth bringing up again - if you end up in the position of actively caring for a person with dementia for example, you can end up doing all the usual life admin twice over.

I was "lucky" that my kids were adults when Alzheimers struck my MIL and we cared for her at home for 18 months until we could no longer keep her safe. It was utterly gruelling because it involved both all the practical stuff but also the emotional fallout as my DP struggled to accept her decline - as did she - leaving me the therapist, chief cook and bottle washer and liaison with all the services involved, while running a retail business.

I cannot imagine how hard it would have been if my kids had been younger.

I do think this needs to be on the list.

BikeRunSki · 23/06/2021 19:01

The UA Fanthorpe poem is one of my favourite things ever. An MNer introduced me to it some time ago. It perfectly describes “domestic” love.

Another one - Christmas stockings. Not just filling them on Christmas Eve, but finding things to put in.

Grellbunt · 23/06/2021 19:14

@BikeRunSki

The UA Fanthorpe poem is one of my favourite things ever. An MNer introduced me to it some time ago. It perfectly describes “domestic” love.

Another one - Christmas stockings. Not just filling them on Christmas Eve, but finding things to put in.

Oh... that's reminded me:

Hallowe'en.....
Easter...
Bonfire night....

Ormally · 24/06/2021 10:25

@BikeRunSki

The UA Fanthorpe poem is one of my favourite things ever. An MNer introduced me to it some time ago. It perfectly describes “domestic” love.

Another one - Christmas stockings. Not just filling them on Christmas Eve, but finding things to put in.

Christmas stockings - last year DH obtained one thing to put in the stocking when I said I'd run out of time to do it (and got all the rest, from early on). A book, from Amazon, that he wrapped. DC asked me later how come Santa had left a slip of paper in the back of the book with her Dad's name on it. Had Santa really meant it to be for him? Ah well, at least this is probably the starting line of belief erosion!
Grellbunt · 24/06/2021 11:00

That's made me think of... the slog of "pretending" about Santa

cf. also:

Tooth fairy

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