Dear Feminists: Be Meaner

[NonnyMouse1337]

Fantastic article that reflects views I've had for a long time. Always wished women would learn how to be more 'mean' and willing to centre women and women's rights instead of looking out for everyone else. We really won't get far unless this changes. Glad to see someone else articulate this so well.

theblisteringrebuttal.substack.com/p/4183e962-ded5-47f7-b89f-c49b9de6cbb5

There is no feminism without analysis of gender politics (I don't mean gender identity, I mean sex), it's completely empty and defanged.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@Whistfulwisteria
Thanks, but I've used the same handle on this site and been upfront about my identity since i signed up about 4 years ago. If I thought (bad) transcentric takes on feminist issues weren't creeping back into this board I'd still be lurking.[/quote]
Ok well you are going to simply cause threads here to go down the same old same old route aren't you.

If I thought (bad) transcentric takes on feminist issues weren't creeping back into this board I'd still be lurking

It's not for you to dictate what others speak about.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

There is no feminism without analysis of gender politics (I don't mean gender identity, I mean sex), it's completely empty and defanged.

I might agree with you if gender politics meant talking about women's issues, but here it doesn't. It means talking about TRAs and nothing else.

might agree with you if gender politics meant talking about women's issues

It does. "Women's issues" cannot be separated from that.

Of course they can.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@Whistfulwisteria
Thanks, but I've used the same handle on this site and been upfront about my identity since i signed up about 4 years ago. If I thought (bad) transcentric takes on feminist issues weren't creeping back into this board I'd still be lurking.[/quote]
So you see you role as keeping us all on message and policing our interactions do you? When did MNHQ give you the authority to do that?

So many women here post about centring women and yet post online about men and their identity.

I might agree with you if gender politics meant talking about women's issues, but here it doesn't. It means talking about TRAs and nothing else.

That's because trans rights activism impacts on pretty much every area of women's lives, rights and safeguards.

So you see you role as keeping us all on message and policing our interactions do you? When did MNHQ give you the authority to do that?

Looks like it. Pretty relentless isn't it. Women will always find a way to talk and fight back though. Knock one down, plenty more pop up in their place.

More from the article:

But that had to be modelled for me. I had to see it in action to truly understand it. And when I was stuck in fauxminist world? It was never modelled for me. I never saw it. All I experienced was female socialisation taken to an extreme—women bending over backwards to include anyone in their feminism until it wasn’t feminism at all, but rather a Trojan horse for patriarchy. I experienced women going out of their way to be caring and gentle, create safe spaces for everyone else, putting themselves last.

It was only once I encountered my first radical feminist space that I saw constructive meanness in action. And I have to be honest. It was jarring. I was scared of these big old feminist meanies. Didn’t they know how mean they were? Didn’t they know they were scaring off men and even other minorities? Didn’t they know? Yes, they knew. They didn’t care.

Sometimes we need to put ourselves first. We are not everyone's mothers. We are not support humans.

We are not props in your "Amazing Story of Me!" (to quote much missed AngryAttackKittens)

That's because trans rights activism impacts on pretty much every area of women's lives, rights and safeguards.

There's impact yes, but it is possible to have a conversation without the relentless"what is a woman" every time, or are you unwilling to consider the possibility that women can ever talk without bringing male identity into the conversation?

You are doing to women what you accuse them of doing.

You are derailing this thread.

This is not a mimsy, feminism lite thread. Its the opposite of #bekind. It's about throwing off female socialisation. Get it moved if you must, but don't be so arrogant as to think you can tell women they can't post about the actual topic of the thread.

I'm asking a question.

Can women talk without identity politics being forced into every conversation?

It's the actual subject of the thread.

I am not being kind.

If I was kind I would just be like "oh well, another fight club thread. Leave them to it, they enjoy it."

Sigh, another derail on an important topic.

@Whistfulwisteria we are not “trying to drag what a woman is” into everything. That would be ridiculous. Unfortunately, on a broad topic like “feminism” and “boundaries”, it will be a part of the conversation and all boundaries of women need to be respected.

@MadBadDaddy, I am sorry if you are feeling targeted. This is a broad topic. If you want to discuss a more narrow topic such as “how do girls deal with the sexual harassment of boys” I suspect that our opinions will be very similar and that we have a lot in common. If you are protesting on how girls are being treated by society in terms of sexual harassment and prejudice, I will protest side by side with you.

However, you cannot require a virtual safe safe from “trans issues” whilst arguing for girls to accept penises in their real-life safe spaces.

However, you cannot require a virtual safe safe from “trans issues” whilst arguing for girls to accept penises in their real-life safe spaces.

💯

I don't care whether you are kind or not. This thread is about women standing up for themselves against people trying to weaponise female socialisation against them. It's not something I would do to you.

@Whistfulwisteria

So many women here post about centring women and yet post online about men and their identity.

I mistyped there.

Over and over women say their feminism is about women and yet start threads about Joss Prior, some weird guy whose had surgery to make him look Korean, and a man going to prison for assaulting a man. Honestly for a board that's all about women there's a lot of stuff that's so not about women it's about men.

I entirely agree with her. When I look back on my adolescence, I want to tell myself "stop worrying about being unkind by embarrassing that creepy lech! He knows what he's doing, and it's not an accident".

I sacrificed my comfort to give boundary-pushing adult men the benefit of the doubt. Over and over.

Over and over women say their feminism is about women and yet start threads about Joss Prior, some weird guy whose had surgery to make him look Korean, and a man going to prison for assaulting a man.

They are all relevant to the sex and gender topic which examines the gender identity subject in more depth. This thread is relevant more generally but sex and gender based analysis is highly relevant to whether women are socialised to be kind against their own interests.