Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Dear Feminists: Be Meaner

260 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 27/03/2021 11:37

Fantastic article that reflects views I've had for a long time. Always wished women would learn how to be more 'mean' and willing to centre women and women's rights instead of looking out for everyone else. We really won't get far unless this changes. Glad to see someone else articulate this so well.

theblisteringrebuttal.substack.com/p/4183e962-ded5-47f7-b89f-c49b9de6cbb5

OP posts:
funktion · 28/06/2021 11:54

As a woman I’ve always had a problem with how men are allowed to get angry but women are shamed for doing the same. All this ‘be kind’ shit can get to fuck.

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 15:08

@334bu - Male privilege? I have little insight. I was dysphoric from an early age so I don't think my experience of growing up male is typical of anyone else's.I've never understood why some males are the way they are. What I do know is that kids now are nothing like the nihilistic Gen-X kids of my generation. There isn't as much casual sexism, homophobia or racism in our culture as there used to be. They care, they are woke, and if anyone tried to say "girls don't get angry" they would laugh in their faces.

334bu · 28/06/2021 16:06

They care, they are woke, and if anyone tried to say "girls don't get angry" they would laugh in their faces.

And they are still suffering horrendous sexual abuse from their male peers and schools have become hostile places for them. They are being encouraged to deny their boundaries and sublimate their rights to appease others. Not very woke in reality. When do girls get to demand that society puts them first?

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 16:18

Privilege isn't contingent on how one feels about oneself. A depressed white millionaire isn't less privileged because of how he feels, even if its his wealth that is causing the depression.

aloris · 28/06/2021 16:25

"Many women feel that the presence of a(n exposed) penis in single sex space makes them uncomfortable and that this is crossing a boundary."

I agree with this except the presence of a person with a penis in a single-sex women's space does not make women "feel" that a boundary is being crossed. A boundary is, in actuality, being crossed. This is not about feelings, but about the right of women and girls to set boundaries about our sexed bodies. These boundaries protect people from being taken advantage of by sexual predators. I don't know which is worse: stepping over the actual boundary, or telling the person whose boundary has been violated that they have no right to that boundary because they spoke up about it in the wrong way, or telling them that they are bigots for having the boundary at all.

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 16:26

They are being encouraged to deny their boundaries and sublimate their rights to appease others

What does this mean?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 16:27

There isn't as much casual sexism

I quite agree, there isn't anything "casual" about it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 16:28

Males in a female space demanding they be centred do inevitably suck all the air away from everything else.

Don't they just.

334bu · 28/06/2021 16:31

They are being encouraged to deny their boundaries and sublimate their rights to appease others

What does this mean?

Have you not read any of the news reports about girls being harassed to send nude photos?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 16:33

Nah. See. This is what you do not get. We know that men do not care. And we know that men rely on us caring about them and get a lot of free labor out of it.

Yes. Exactly right, @daenerysterfgaryen

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 16:45

@334bu No, but I can imagine. I'm not sure how harassing someone in this way qualifies as "being encouraged to deny their boundaries". Its just plain old sexual harassment or coercion with added smartphones. I'm pretty sure stuff like this gets covered in PSHE

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2021 17:07

The internet-enabled, porn fuelled sexism experienced by girls nowadays seems to me nastier and more corrosive than the old fashioned sexism that applied (in bucketloads) when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s.
And many types of old fashioned types of sexism still do exist.

334bu · 28/06/2021 17:27

* No, but I can imagine. I'm not sure how harassing someone in this way qualifies as "being encouraged to deny their boundaries". Its just plain old sexual harassment or coercion with added smartphones. I'm pretty sure stuff like this gets covered in PSHE*

If someone is being coerced to do something , I would think that is a very clear example of their boundaries being denied. As a father of daughters you may not understand the constant pressure that all girls are put under by the opposite sex and usually from a very young age but I can assure you that they are. From the somewhat innocuous" give us a smile " to the " get your tits out" when walking alone coming home from school. Girls' boundaries are constantly under attack.

Hadalifeonce · 28/06/2021 17:44

I am telling my DD to call out inappropriate behaviour and speech by the boys at school. She used to say it's just banter! I reminded her that other girls are intimidated by it, so the more people call it out the better; hopefully resulting in other boys understanding and also not accepting it.

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 19:01

It's part of rape culture to deny boundaries. It's woven deep into it. Girls are deemed to be asking for it by virtue of being girls and I would say that denial/pushing/prodding of boundaries is inseparable from harassment/coercion.

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 20:04

@334bu My main reason for posting was b/c I'm acutely aware of the waters my daughters are learning to swim in. Their eyes are open and they are nobody's fool, ansd I can listen, support, etc.which is great but it would be nice to feel like I could read (not even take part in) constructive, informed discussion that didn't always get sucked towards a trans rabbit-hole. I was hoping that the MNHQ decision would take care of this but that isn't the case so that's why I de-lurked. I'm here for my kids, not to centre myself or my identity,

BTW, On Twitter, if I so much as mention that I'm a parent on certain threads I get called a pedo, without fail.

334bu · 28/06/2021 20:15

What rabbit hole? I merely mentioned that as a father you would not have shared your daughters' experience of adolescence and might not be aware of the constant abuse girls get from about 11 onwards simply because they are girls.

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 20:33

@334bu I didn't say it was you. My initial post laid out what i wanted to say. I'm only responding to direct questions. What you 'merely mentioned' is not the case.

Whistfulwisteria · 28/06/2021 20:42

@MadBadDaddy

Just name change. It is an anonymous forum.
You don't have to introduce a trans identity here, the point of this board is to ease up on that angle.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 21:19

This specific thread is from before the split and concerns sex based rights, as are many others here, despite the myopic nature of some posters who think you can cut sex/gender analysis out of feminism.

People need to start another thread if they want posters to conform to how they want to discuss whatever it is that they want to discuss, because the young woman daenerysterfgaryen whose online activism is the specific subject of this thread is very clear on what she feels about boundary violation of women and girls, and how it links in with supposedly "progressive" positions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 21:20

From the article:

The point is, kindness has been weaponised by patriarchy, used to manipulate women into putting themselves second. It is a way in which patriarchy has us gaslight ourselves.
Women are told to be nice because it makes us docile. We are told to be nice because it makes us more malleable, more easily folded and tucked away. Kindness makes us easier to manipulate. And that’s what patriarchy wants. It wants us meek, passive, submissive, easy to handle, and easy to abuse.
So. To all of that, I say: fuck that. Absolutely, 100%, fuck that.

MadBadDaddy · 28/06/2021 21:24

@Whistfulwisteria
Thanks, but I've used the same handle on this site and been upfront about my identity since i signed up about 4 years ago. If I thought (bad) transcentric takes on feminist issues weren't creeping back into this board I'd still be lurking.

334bu · 28/06/2021 21:27

**The point is, kindness has been weaponised by patriarchy, used to manipulate women into putting themselves second. It is a way in which patriarchy has us gaslight ourselves.
Women are told to be nice because it makes us docile. We are told to be nice because it makes us more malleable, more easily folded and tucked away. Kindness makes us easier to manipulate. And that’s what patriarchy wants. It wants us meek, passive, submissive, easy to handle, and easy to abuse.
So. To all of that, I say: fuck that. Absolutely, 100%, fuck that. **

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏💐💐

Whistfulwisteria · 28/06/2021 21:27

despite the myopic nature of some posters who think you can cut sex/gender analysis out of feminism.

It's also the case that the sex/gender analysis doesn't have to be cut into every conversation about feminism.

And that doesn't mean people have eyesight problems, nor does it mean they may not be acutely aware of the instances where identification causes conflict however the board has been introduced with the intention of permitting conversation that doesn't always get drawn into that aspect.
There's a difference between the work going on to challenge identification, and general discussion about feminism. We are not all myopic, we simply have different ways of talking

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/06/2021 21:28

It's good, isn't it.