Public speaking fear - career limiting?

[Outrunning]

Looking for some friendly advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation or has some insights to offer. I have always lacked a certain amount of confidence and struggle to assert myself. I’ve dreaded public speaking tasks throughout my life. On some occasions I’ve managed to get through it and train my brain to rationalise the situation. Other times, I haven’t and I’ve avoided, made up excuses or even worse - tried to get through it and have a panic attack or just freeze. It’s unpredictable as to how I will react and I hate that this continues to plague me.

I have spent a fortune over the years on private therapy including CBT, hypnotherapy and other public speaking specialists. I’m lucky to have been in a position to pay for private help. Honestly, however, I don’t think they’ve made the slightest bit of difference but I don’t know why. I’m currently undertaking another course of private therapy because I’ve recently started a new job where I’d like to finally gain some control over this fear otherwise it will become career limiting. I’ve spent a lot of money on 4 sessions - a total of 6.5 hours - just to be told at the end of it that I need more therapy to deal with childhood trauma in order to progress with the public speaking fear.

The diagnosis with each of these therapy courses has been that my current issues stem from emotional neglect as a child. Being encouraged to keep your head down and not putting yourself out there. Over the years of therapy and self-reflection, I’ve come to realise that my childhood has contributed to these issues. The problem is … I don’t know what I can do about it! In my mind I’ve made peace with my childhood and have already done the therapy to understand this. My parents were loving but my mum almost certainly had undiagnosed mental health issues herself which means that I was impacted growing up. I see this as an adult and accept it. We have a good relationship now - not close close but close enough and no drama.

I have no intentions of bringing this up with her and explaining the issues it has caused because I know this would hurt her and I don’t think it’ll change anything. So where does this leave me? Do I knock therapy on the head? Is medication an option to get through public speaking tasks at work? I haven’t spoken to a GP about this. Is the medication guaranteed to work? Do I try to continue with the therapy sessions although I’m not sure I can financially commit to this (especially as I’ve already paid for many sessions with no improvements to date)? Is it a case of accepting that this is my weakness and so I need to accept my career-limitations? Can anyone relate?

Hi, well first what career are you considering? How does the fear of public speaking manifest - if you are in a small team setting , can you speak then etc. vs presenting to a large and unknown audience? Spontaneous speaking (eg answering a question in a group setting) okay, or is it planned presentation that gets you in a pickle?

It is a common problem and I think you could tackle it a number of ways that don’t involve examining childhood trauma!

I know I got more confidence volunteering with kids - if you are bossing your local group of adoring but mischievous Beavers you find ways of raising your voice louder, taking authority, keeping the attention of a group, and actually enjoying being the focus of an activity.

I also found that my manager at work was very sympathetic and would create small opportunities for me to speak in meetings where I could have “the floor” and know it was just one item in a longer agenda no one cared about. For example- volunteer to organise your team’s next social event.

I watched an episode of Oprah once, decades ago, which basically said “fake it until you make it”. No one knows how nervous you feel so act like that confident person you admire, and before long you’ll become a confident person.

My issues, btw, stemmed from bullying at school - it was a defence mechanism. I still struggle making female friends. Apparently I’m not naturally a quiet person though! Now I’m approaching 50 and you’d never know how terrible I felt in my 20s and 30s.

Well done for seeking to address this issue, I know how debilitating this type of anxiety can be and you are clearly motivated to try to improve the situation. Without knowing the specifics of your fears around public speaking, I’m wondering if perhaps it is the type of therapy that is not working for you? It can take a while to figure out what is most helpful and also to find a decent therapist you ‘click’ with. If trauma is at the root cause of the problem it does not necessarily follow that you need to focus on that childhood trauma in therapy in order to progress. Sometimes trauma can leave people ‘stuck’ and unable to progress with less intensive psychological work such as CBT, whereby psychodynamic psychotherapy could be indicated. However this is something that should be discussed with you collaboratively. I would recommend seeing a therapist who has expertise in both childhood trauma and public speaking anxiety, perhaps a Clinical Psychologist (check they are HCPC registered) who is trained more broadly rather than a CBT Therapist who is less likely to address the trauma too. It could be that the CBT approach was too shallow/focused on behaviours, rather than identifying any core beliefs and thought processes which need shifting to make headway with the anxiety. I guess what I’m trying to say is don’t give up with therapy yet, persevere and find the therapist that you click with. Obviously going private will help with this but it’s not cheap.

There can be a place for medication but it really depends on whether physiological sensations of anxiety are a big factor for you. Medical is unlikely to be a long term fix and can lead to reliance, causing more problems.

I despised pubic speaking as a child and experienced similar childhood trauma to you, a good therapist will be able to make links with other areas with your life as it’s unlikely just your confidence with pubic speaking this has effected. General assertiveness and self esteem work could be helpful. My job involves a lot of public speaking, and I’ve been confident now for years, but I do think the it will always be something I have to keep in check. If I haven’t done it for a while, I still feel nervous. But I’m so so far from where I used to be. Good luck!

Honestly go and see your GP and ask for propranolol. It’s life changing. I also tried various therapies for my panic attacks when public speaking. Made no difference. I do a job where I have to public speak. I take a propranolol about 30 mins before speaking and I can just do it now - no physical symptoms of fear at all. I still get a bit nervous but I know it’s going to be ok and the physical symptoms won’t be there. No side effects from the medication except it makes me thirsty.

Should say have been using it for nearly 30 years (only before public speaking). I rely on it to the extent I wouldn’t do it without it but it makes no difference to the rest of my life.

I thought I struggled with public speaking due to self confidence and low self esteem I tried counselling and hypnotherapy. Didn't work.

Then I started to understand my sensory needs. I find eye contact overwhelming. I realise I'm dyslexic so struggle with word retrieval.

Understanding this has helped enourmously. Basically I can take those things into account and make adaptions that help with them. Too long to explain here.

It might be worth going to a therapist who's neurodivergent affirmative even if you don't fit into an official diagnosis you may have some sensory sensitivities that need accomodating for.

Try speaking sitting down!

It works for me. For some reason I can be perfectly confident talking to a room of people when sitting down, but go bright red and get all of a fluster if I do it while standing up.
You could say you have a bad back or something the first time but for me everyone knows "it's just what Knickerless does" and no one comments.

I solved this problem by taking first of all Improv class (improvisation comedy class) and later beginners stand up comedy class complete with gig.

I had tried everything I could think of that I was prepared to try until I did this. I found both classes (I did one term of each) incredibly hard but I did complete both and nothing has been as helpful. I never tried propanalol but I know others who swear by it so that is an avenue that could also be worth exploring.

You are definitely not the only person who faces this specific professional challenge. Until I addressed it, my fear of public speaking limited me career-wise as I didn’t have the visibility my peers did. Good luck!

I found going to a drama class for adults really helped me to lose some of the fear( I don’t think it goes away completely)
it was a fun way to gain confidence and nearly 20 years down the line still makes me smile.

Public speaking fear is common and there's a fairly simple reason for it. When we're young - school age - it's hugely important to fit in socially, this is driven at an evolutionary level; safety in numbers. This is why children will smoke, shoplift and do lots of daft things just to fit in with the 'gang'.

So standing up and speaking in class is a very high risk activity, and if we do it and get it wrong it's so absolutely mortifying a part of the subconscious mind says "I am NEVER letting you go through that again". To that end - and to protect you, not hurt you - it will trigger the emotions of fear to try to stop you whenever you think about speaking in public.

Trying to pin this on your (seemingly normal) childhood is wasting your time, at best, unethical at worst. A short course of remedial hypnosis would fix this by pinpointing that part of the subconscious that believes it's doing a good job and asking it to stop.

I’m not sure what qualifies you to make such an ignorant statement. You are massively over simplifying complex matters and recommending hypnosis which has no evidence base and is controversial at best. Not everyone has anxiety around public speaking, particularly in adulthood. The OP has described experiencing emotional neglect - how is that a ‘seemingly normal’ childhood? You are minimising someone’s lived experience and pain. Do better.

Could you join a local Toastmasters group? You can decide to participate or not depending on how you're feeling that day and it allows you to practise public speaking in a welcoming, small group.
I get so anxious when doing any sort of public speaking. My hands get clammy and shaky and my voice quivers so I can relate to a certain extent.

I’m not sure what qualifies you to make such an ignorant statement.

Experience and results.

Thanks @UndecidedAboutEverything for your reply. Work wise - I’m not looking to speak at conferences or anything to such a scale. Really it would be presenting in a small team meeting, up to 20 people perhaps? But this goes further than my career if I’m honest. For example, if a friend wanted me to speak at their
wedding, or if giving a goodbye toast to a colleague, I just couldn’t do it.

It’s funny you mention bossing children around. I used to be a teacher (only for a couple of years) and never once thought in that time about the fact I was ‘presenting’ to children. Looking back, I felt I could articulate myself better and improvise as I went along. I now work in finance and struggle to articulate myself as well as I used to. I feel like I’ve lost the ability to communicate effectively. I muddle my words and become easily panicked.

Glad to hear things have improved for you. Do you think it’s also a case of things improving with age? I’m in my 30s and this really has haunted me for at least 20 years.

To those mentioning drama/improv/toastmaster groups, thank you. I have really considered this, but I’m just too terrified. I don’t know if I’d cope?! I fear I’d just stand up and freeze and then just give up. The appeal of these groups is there but don’t know if they’re suitable for people like me. Sometimes I think I just need to break through this barrier and I’ll be ok - perhaps these groups would help with that?

@Eyesopenwideawake thank you for your message. Through the various therapy sessions I’ve had, I totally understand the evolutionary roots of such a fear. I completely get it and can rationalise the fear. This is where it becomes so frustrating because it still controls me. It’s an in built automatic response now. If you read my OP, you’ll see that I don’t want to pinpoint this on my childhood. I have understood where this has developed from in my relationship with my mother but I’m not interested in assigning ‘blame’ or guilt. I’m a parent now myself and know that I’m far from perfect and life has its challenges which take their toll. I have also had a course of hypnotherapy but unfortunately it didn’t work for me.

I absolutely agree with you, there’s no point or need in doing anything other than work on that “inbuilt automatic response”. Remedial hypnosis is not hypnotherapy. You are awake, alert and in control of the process - that’s why it’s very effective in dealing with this type of issue.

Thanks @Ivorymoon i am so motivated to overcome this but I suppose with all that I have tried, I’m beginning to wonder if I just have to accept that I may never overcome it. I totally understand that some therapists will click for me better than others - this is just not financially doable for me. I can’t keep paying out until I find the right one. Likewise, I don’t think this is something that I can fix in 3 sessions. I think I’ll need something longer term which definitely becomes beyond me in financial terms.
It gives me hope that people like you say you’ve overcome it and can keep it in check. Thank you for the well wishes!

Propranolol.
Game changer. I know so many people who use it for public speaking, interviews etc.

I sought out an Improv group for the purpose of improving my public speaking. I think I might have had a recommendation from
someone? I found the class tough going but completed it and found it helpful. Then I asked the improv teacher for a recommendation for a stand-up comedy teacher and he gave me one. The stand-up comedy class helped more, but I think I needed to have done improv first to suit my comfort level.

You could try to find a trial or drop-in class and tell yourself you only have to go once?

There is absolutely no evidence base for this and your anecdotes aren’t helpful.

I think frequent exposure is key, you may find that your anxiety naturally lessens over time the more you put yourself into these situations. It’s about finding opportunities outside of a purely work setting too, other posters have some helpful suggestions. I appreciate how much effort it is though and it can be very demoralising when you have been trying to overcome this for a long time. You could go down the NHS mental health services route (IAPT if you’re in England), as you’ve had CBT before you may be on offered a more intensive approach (and more sessions). Good luck!

I think frequent exposure is key, you may find that your anxiety naturally lessens over time

My understanding is tha that is only true if it's a reaction based on an irrational fear.

If it's an anxiety that comes up due to trauma that won't work because it's not irrational, it's a rational response from the passed that hasn't been processed properly yet.

If it's an unmet sensory need then that also won't work as your sensory needs don't lesson the more you do something, they remain the same.

There is a difference between a trauma response and anxiety, yes. The OP has not mentioned unmet sensory needs. No one on the internet can advise the OP with specifics, she would need a professional assessment for that. My point that frequent exposure to a feared but non traumatic situation e .g public speaking can reduce anxiety over time via the physiological process of habituation - remains accurate.

@Ivorymoon Unmet sensory needs and/or sensory overwhelm are often misunderstood as anxiety. (Obvs I have no idea if that's what's causing this for the OP, I'm just putting it out there).

Hi there;
I wanted to reply as your post hit a nerve with me. I never had any issues with public speaking until some low level bullying in secondary school, (which I’d say the individuals didn’t even remember) really impacted me.

in my head it became a bigger and bigger issue, and it got to the stage where if I spoke in front of even 4 people at a meeting I’d go red and my voice would quiver.
it was so debilitating and definitely impacted career choices and situations I’d put myself in.

eventually I got promoted and was put in a position of having to present to approx 20 people. I was dreading it but there was no way out and I knew I had to do it.
My then manager told me (when I told him I was nervous) - dont worry; it’s your bread and butter and they don’t have a clue;
my sister told me that most people are thinking about something they have to do and not even listening.
Both of those really helped.
I also practised about a hundred times saying it out loud and then on the day used rescue remedy.

on the day it went really well and I was on such a high!
the main thing was knowing my opening paragraph inside out - once you get into a rhythm it’s much easier

I now think it’s down to practice; I speak in front of a group of up to 50 people once a quarter and every time it gets easier.

stick with it hon; I honestly think if I can do it anyone can! X