My wife

[1990schild]

I'm worried about my wife. She seems very disorganised and happy to live in chaos, the latest issue which got to me was forgetting to bring nappies when we were out and about which caused me to get annoyed (I won't go into detail).
It could be just tiredness through lack of sleep but I have worries that something more long term is going on.
My wife never makes any time for herself including basics like having a shower, catching up with sleep or to sort messy house out. I don't really enjoy living with mountains of toys pilled up everywhere, food pushed to the back of couches and areas left dirty and untidy. We don't have free space to even put a cup of tea down, everything is just pilled up, everywhere. I've never lived like this in my life until now, it's clutter HQ.
It feels like I'm being forced to live in her chaotic ways. Feels a bit suffocating, frustrating and makes my brain feel foggy and my thinking is unclear.
She sometimes goes 3, 4, 5 days without having a shower, she says because it's always inconvenient (kids are tired or I'm stressing out). We sleep in separate beds, she has the youngest and I have my 4 year old son. Both kids slept on her causing her to miss out on sleep.
She seems to have the belief that as a parent if your not suffering then your doing it wrong. She won't accept any help like letting someone else take care of the kids to do important stuff like shower etc. To do things as a couple like go out together, just us, is totally out of the picture. Feels sometimes like our relationship has ended in a way.
She says she has separation issues and doesn't want to let the kids out of her sights.
As you can imagine seeing them go to childcare or nursery has been hard and emotional.
Her way to parenting is actually starting to have a negative impact on me. Feel pressured to always be there when I'm not at work.
I can't to anything alone, having a shower or going for a poo is not easy because my son wants to follow me everywhere.
Personally I need a tiny bit of 'me time' away from the kids as a reset from the strains of being a parent in demand. She gets stressed having two young children but is far too stubborn to admit it.

I thought that when a second child came along she would loosen her grip over her separation issues. That hasn't happened and finding time to be in relationship together, get stuff done, and time to relax is never planned or organised.
I feel like 'kids always come first' approach has been taken to an extreme and now our mental health is suffering a bit. I feel that issues from her past are now manifesting into a bigger mental health issue and are impacting on not just her but three other people's lives.

It's hard for me to approach this with her because she is very stubborn plus she is a very loving parent and wife. I don't want to break her or worse loose her.

No hate at all, just practical advice.

What did you expect, people to agree that your DW is being unreasonable to not be able to manage 80% of the housework while working full time, or needs psychiatric help, or is lazy, or that you should leave her?

OP, I can't help agreeing with all the other posters BUT... it does seem to me that you being aware that there's a problem is at least a step in the right direction.

I'd guess though that if you have done childcare/cleaning/cooking etc you feel aggrieved because she's complained it's not done well enough? And while it is true that sometimes women can be a bit controlling on this, the reality is that constantly having to delegate, explain, teach, oversee is EXHAUSTING.

Soyou need to step up and DO something. And do it right. If you decide to cook, COOK. Do the planning, the shopping, the cooking etc. And od it without using every pan that she then has to wash up or requiring her to look after the kids alone for 3 hours.

spends all his non-work time with his family, and no longer indulges in any of his interests is obviously a horrible man

That’s no different to your DW though, is it? The trouble is that being “willing to help more with the children” and those kind of statements makes men sound like they’re doing everyone a favour whereas they are actually doing what they should as a parent. At the moment there is a horrible imbalance and if you want to help your DW and yourself you need to meet her half way on the domestic and childcare front as a start, no ifs, no buts. Wondering whether she has problems with executive functioning etc is avoiding the 80% sized elephant in the room and will never be clear if she is working FT and is carrying most of the load. It does sound as if she is overwhelmed, lost some boundaries and clinging to control but understandably so.

Can you do some practical things @1990schild? Can you hire a skip and get rid of clutter or bag up things for the charity shop? Get rid of toys that aren’t played with? I have ADHD and tend towards keeping things and allowing clutter to build up and the only way I can keep my head above water is to clear the decks, not try and tidy up when there is too much stuff (it’s worth noting that I struggled all my life with undiagnosed ADHD but the wheels only really came off when I had children). Can you jointly afford to buy in some help like a cleaner for a few hours a week?

Talking of “me time”, are you saying that she is unwilling to leave the children with you? It sounds like she could do with a break and is overwhelmed. I got like this and couldn’t see far enough in front of me to see that time to myself was important. Can you take the children out for a few hours at a regular time/day so that she always has her time that is totally hers? Don’t be passive, say that’s what you’re going to do. Once you’re taking 50% of the domestics can you timetable things a bit more; wall chart with days of the week and who has what task on which days (but work it out together). Perhaps if some balance and structure is imposed you will be able to give each other some important “me time”? But you need to urgently correct the 20% problem.

Do you think that you would do a better job if you did 80% of the housework / childcare / mental load?

If so, do that then and provide a role model that she can aspire to - show her how easy it is?

Your wife is overwhelmed. She is also 'fire-fighting' and prioritising. This is what I do when I'm overwhelmed too. Tidying the house is the first thing to go - the same mess will still be there next week, no matter whether I spend hours putting it all away and my DC then takes it all out again. Your wife has also reached the point where she's sacrificing self-care and sleep to get everything done.

You need to pull your weight. You don't need her permission to do this. Instead, you just need to take some ownership of various aspects of your family life together from now on.

I'd suggest that, to start with, you take over half the cooking, keeping the kitchen clean and the laundry as your jobs. Start by tidying the kitchen, including the cupboards, and getting it into a state where it doesn't stress you out to cook in there. Then take responsibility for keeping it clean from now on - ask your wife to help or to put things away, but fundamentally just accept that the cleanliness and tidiness of the kitchen is your gig from now on, not your wife's.

Ditto the laundry. Put a system in place. Take responsibility for washing, drying, folding and putting away. If you do this, this will be a massive amount of mess out the way in the house.

If you take responsibility for these tasks, your wife will then have more time and headspace for self-care and to hopefully feel less overwhelmed and hopeless. You may then be able to function better together as a team to keep your house a clean and pleasant place to live.

Your wife won't have time with everything she is doing and it is only perfectly normal that she is stressed and tired because of it. It does sound like she needs to take a big step back here (for her own sanity) which I understand you have encouraged her to do. It sound like she is putting so much pressure on herself to be perfect and forgetting that a happy 'Mum' equals happy dc. They need to grow up and see their Mum take a little time out for herself and not neglect her own needs as that is unhealthy. Taking care of her needs means she can better take care of the dc's (putting own oxygen mask on first).

How to help? We make tidying into a game, 2 year old loves to help and copy what I do (maybe an idea for when you are spending time with your dc). For example he will follow me with his little toy vacuum while I hoover, he will help take laundry out the laundry basket etc and help tidy cupboards (I'm his own little way but he is entertained and I'm still spending time with him at the same time)

I think your wife needs to take a step back and allow you to help more with the house work and if she doesn't do it anyway. You are saying you want your wife to take time out and that's great but the fact she forgot nappies is unsurprising considering she is admitted by you (and stubbornness on her part) doing the lions share. Here it is your turn to step in and make sure you have everything with understanding your wife at this moment in time has more than enough to do.

I think you have to not ask or listen to your wife about whether you help and just do it anyway. Insist you're having a take away when you see she is fed up of cooking, tidy up, do the laundry and gradually declutter. Give your wife a lie in and get up with the dc. Gradually make it 50/50. The more sleep and time your wife gets the more she will gradually get back to her normal self. This is something you have to put your foot down with and just do it.

Hope that helps even alittle op. Good luck.

I love that this is posted in Mental Health. A woman working F/T, doing the vast majority of housework, cooking and childcare who fails to keep a tidy house is classed as possibly having mental health issues! What a prize she has found in the OP.

@CheshireChat

So you both work full time and she does 80% of housework, most of the childcare, all the cooking and carries all the mental load (as you had the nerve to complain she forgot the nappies, when so did you) and you think her time "off" should be spent doing housework.

How about you tackle 50% of all of the above and you might find her MH suddenly improves .

This comment!! 👏🏻

@1990schild

Oh so it's turn into a hatefest. I'll leave now.

A man who takes his wife's name, changes jobs to suit family life better, spends all his non-work time with his family, and no longer indulges in any of his interests is obviously a horrible man.

@1990schild arrange a baby sitter, take a day off, get the house cleaned, force your wife to have a shower / bath, make dinner (takeaway?) and communicate with her. Everything you said here tell her and work through it.

Christ she works full time too??? And most of everything rksd? And in part because you get ‘stressed’ because she hasn’t cleaned the kitchen gif yoh to cook in it?

And you’re setting yourself apart from ‘most men’ - mater, you’re swimming with the rest of the fish.

Support your wife. Frankly she should bloody leave you. I hood she sees this thread and does just that - at least she won’t be running around after you as well

@SparklingLime

I love that this is posted in Mental Health. A woman working F/T, doing the vast majority of housework, cooking and childcare who fails to keep a tidy house is classed as possibly having mental health issues! What a prize she has found in the OP.

He sounds just like my ex - who was abusive and played the mental health card when I couldn’t perfectly keep up with working full time, a toddler and an autistic child AND keep a perfect house.

The OP has flounced because they didn't get the responses they thought they would 😏

@dexterslockedintheshedagain

The OP has flounced because they didn't get the responses they thought they would 😏

Does feel like he thought we were all going to agree that her lack of personal hygiene means she has a huge problem.

But not sure what he thought we were going to say? "So keep on telling her how bad she is, getting irritated and accusing her of things." The lack of foresight to see that even if we all agreed SHE had a MH problem, we would then all agree HE should do more... hahahahaha

I do feel sorry for OP's wife however. She's getting no help and a man who tells her that her mental health is a problem because she can't do it all. I'm willing to bet he's also got some strategic incompetence going on there so that even if he does "offer" to help, she won't accept it because she knows the kids would be in the park in t-shirts on a -5 snow day and that him cooking dinner actually involves her planning it, preparing the kitchen in advance, shopping, writing down the instructions etc. Followed by dropping to her knees to give him a BJ when it's done out of gratitude.

Some interesting observations from your posts:

*I have no friends and rarely see my own family.

I've let me wife take the lead on everything once we had our first kid.

That being said she is in need of help I probably have gotten to used to taking a back seat.

A man who takes his wife's name, changes jobs to suit family life better, spends all his non-work time with his family, and no longer indulges in any of his interests is obviously a horrible man.*

Looks to me like you are a passenger in your family? What do you exactly contribute? What are you doing with all of this time you have freed up by ditching your friends, hobbies, social life and work time - it doesn’t sound like you are actively engaged in your family life - you sound contemptuous of your 4 year old - and grandiose and deluded that taking your wife’s name is some sort of virtue signal that somehow releases you from actually pitching in to keeping the house that you live in running and the children you produced fed, clothed and parented.

Because 80% of that housework that your DW does is also 80% of your mess, your shopping, your cooking.

I think that your wife is solely carrying the mental, physical, emotional and domestic load of this household and she might well feel a bit lighter if she off loaded the moaning, demanding and contemptuous bloke who hangs around the house contributing nothing but dismissive judgement.

What role parenting models did you experience?

I think you need to just get in with cleaning the house and then everything else will fall into place. Book a few days holiday or, with the Easter break coming up take advantage and sort the shit out that's piled up in your house. I have been where you are - I'm a naturally messy (but not dirty) person and can stand a bit of clutter. DH is not. We both worked full time and had little to no support and we just cracked in and did it. Clutter breeds bad mental health IMO. You sound a lovely genuine caring husband - ignore the snarky people here. But you need to be proactive rather than whinging about it I'm sorry to say. Ship the kids off for a night or best part if the day and tackle a room each. We declutter every few months now and it's made a massive difference.

It's funny you make this into a male/female thing. If you dabble into the "manosphere", through the drivel, you'll also pick up a strong thread of "Get your own house in order mate".

Agree that genders are irrelevant - it could be two males, two females, two non-binary….. basically it’s not equal.

No one would tolerate this 80/20 split in a flat share - why the hell do you believe it’s acceptable in a loving marriage?

FFS. I've met a fair few men who think they're God's gift to women because they take an interest in their own kids and 'other men do less than me'. I'm never sure whether they're narcissistic or just plain dumb.

OP these 'other men' are arseholes and you don't get or expect a medal for not being an arsehole. Doing your share of domestic work is the bare minimum. If you both work full time, you should be doing equal amounts of household work. Isn't that obvious?

And no, men don't have an entitlement to stick to their preferred domestic tasks either. It's not the case that you get to play with the kids while your wife cleans the loos. Again, how does this still need explaining?

The thing that saved me from this was a really lovely cleaner that was so much more.

She was paid for four hours a time but would just come, clean, sort, put away laundry, cuddle the baby, put my dishes away and sit and chat with a coffee.

She was wondrous.

She's burnt out.

She doesn't have a mental health problem. She has a DH problem. So start pulling your boots up and do your fair share.

OP hopefully you are busy cleaning the house and doing over 80% of the chores/life admin/school runs. Don't worry if you arent good at cleaning as you will soon get the hang of it.

Think that is a great start to improving your wifes mental health. She'll even have time to shower daily.

It's your house too, pull your weight. Or you could flounce off because everyone is quite rightly saying you need to do more. That isn't a hate fest, it's the truth. No one is saying you're horrible but look at it from the outside.

She works full time, does 80% of housework, all the cooking and you still aren't happy. You moan about the state of the house but make no attempt to chip in and then have the nerve to get annoyed with her for forgetting shit because she's exhausted doing your share of pretty much everything. And suggest that cleaning the house is 'me time' for her. Frankly I'd have killed you in your sleep by this point.

You sound concerned about your wife which is a good place to start some reparations. Your wife and DC need your support.

The obvious question is to ask what you are doing to support and help in the family? What is your contribution to the childcare, time with DC, maintaining your home, cleaning up the home for yourself, your DC and your wife. How many meals do you shop for, cook and clean up after? Do you do washing, change beds etc..

Are you taking the DC out on afternoons, mornings to give your wife some time. Maybe after some regular rest she will feel more able to cope with the DC transitions.

Do you both have jobs?